Problems & Solutions, by yours truly.

[Cherek]

Quantum/Zelie/Draugor: Zelie is correct, we are overall adjusting UP, not down. Draugor's idea is also a pretty good summary of what will happen when we make the change. These things have been explained in the other, now locked thread, but it probably was not clear enough from our side. There were a lot of people posting in the original thread and it also derailed quickly, so much of what we said was probably lost/missed. Also, since we have a policy to not post specific numbers, it makes it harder for us wizards to explain things in a good way. So, the original explanations from us probably were not good enough either. We also adjusted some things based on feedback in the original thread, which perhaps also added to the confusion and/or was missed.

I wrote a long reply here, but Riva suggested below to post it in a new thread, since more people probably want to read it. And it also keeps this thread from being derailed as well, as this thread mainly is about Nils' suggestion. So, you can read a more detailed eplanation on the race change here:

viewtopic.php?p=49447#p49447

Hopefully this clears up the confusion.

[Riva]

@Cherek

I think that dispels a lot of misinformation regarding the matter and could stand to be a post of its own too!

[Snowrose]

in a lot of ways what is actually going to happen sounds a lot like what people were asking for. the balancing upwards.

[Wolverine]

Great input Nils , that engagement with ideas to improve the game is far beyond my level.

In life and in this game, all of us mortals can write the best of ideas. From work related experience and how politics is, aswell as withinin council of guilds or to AoB team in Genesis or any other role in life. When you are in leading roles you can create change - as a regular mortal its tough. As we can't change politics in life with opionions only.

Great ideas could be just dreams of things to come, Ive hoped for multiple weapon choice for Gladiators for many years and I believe that if you want to change something and get all your ideas heard - its within the wizhood life in a role where you are part of changing the game, something that is hard for a mortal. All goblin world is as boring as all vampire world, now the vampire community is less played then kenders and a race update is better for game in all directions. But regardless of ideas and responses of a mortal and wizard, understand that all of us is part of the game. as to understand that many mortal in their roles of guild create as much life and of more then those that code it. Listen to Nils and Quantums opinions and see them sharing really great ideas - its not a battle between them or wizards - not something that lead to arguements or threads writen with undertone of bitterness, or a reflection of an author of a note to be this way or that way. As it was sad to see some comments towards Quantum of automated gameplay like it didnt matter, as things gets personal when someone lift a great idea or is seen as less worth as a voice to share ideas and opinions. I would have enjoyed reading Nils note and read response as great input Niils. but we decided to do this and that.. and not to a keeper vs Nils drama or as Quantum had it, battling players and mortals that went at his arguements.. Right now its alot of discussion of a change in future of something we havent experienced yet, and to write hundred of threads now on how life will change based on little information as bonuses or loss in stats - unaware totally of how it will be.

Value that wizards post a thread of this race update and liisten to feedback of it, value that all can be heard, but understand that its a balanced race update that is for all, not for me as Wolverine, or as the goblin that has to be Dragoanrmy or Angmar, as the game has been unbalanced for long of races, as some races is encumbered of an armour that a goblin wear lightly burdened, as that weak strength cant carry, fight or hit like a goblin right now.

I change guilds, races, stat sets always, just to enjoy my gameplay in a way that wont be a legacy of a 20 year guild membership. The race update for me is awesome, its 100 posibilities of fun for my game. As I adapt and change post race update..

The most positive things about these threads that are positive, negative, super deep like Nils or like Quantum sharing his opinions in a way of engagement, regardless of that it was his opinion against the rest. I sent him a mail as out of respec to stand up for his believes and wrote Nils a dm about his great note.

The future will be different then we have experienced and the engagement in all threads of change for the game shows that the game is full of life, as a silent forum unvisited and a game that you decided to not play again will not show anything but quit out reaction drama.

Trust Cherek, Crick & Zizurph they have no agenda to change this game into something that you fear, don't drop a leave note of this game, test the new life after race update - adapt and change guilds, if that isnt fun, try an alt char of a guild and race combo you never tried..

I have left this game for years back and forth only as of lately very heavy amount of activity, but i left from time to time, if you are burned out from alot of activity and these changes feel like a pain in the ass, just take a pause.. this game wasnt made to be goblin and a super tank as DO, Angmar and we all can change in shapeshifting as i personally would love to see an active halfling Nils as FK and Alorrana back as minotaur - dwarf base for constitution in Angmar.

Regardless of what, see the passion in the threads of Nils and Quantum, and not inputs to result in pie throwing activties of how Quantum is this or that or Nils has some other agenda... Regardless of what you feel, non of your ideas and opinions are ignored, one idea out of ten good ideas might be something that will come in the future.

I picked up words like Cherek had destroyed the game with allowing vampires, a comment out of frustration which isnt true at all. The boring part with the vampires was that it was 15 of them and all gear was farmed,, equally as boring as DO with applicants all the time and new members is as boring.

I trust Cherek and his work with Zizurph and Crick and my view on all of this is that everything will be better, I hope that this race update bring life to dead guilds and I have one purpose in life as Wolverine, to keep Angmar alive in the future that will be great..

Don't fear the loss of Constitution all goblins in the Realm.

“Goblins seems like all-male species, with any race with the pregnancy. always resulting in goblin children .. So a goblin’s weakness is women...“

Wolverine has been a shapeshifting character of mine that started out as human as House of Borlad in Calia and leading Blue Dragonarmy with Sirion and Quaid, an alt i made after a totally failed character named Soote who couldnt join a guild in Genesis... Ogres got me to change goblin first time and i changed, but throughout my life wasnt goblin always the most optimal race, that big strength and constitution didnt help me in Cathedral when i was in need of dexterity and discipline to dodge hits and spells.. Wolverine was unplayed for years of breaks, and in 2009-2011 i was SS with Soote and had a blast.. and things like that could happen for me in the future, as none of these updates was made to make my life worse in genesis or the better for some vampires.

Mercenary Warlock combo is exactly like a non undead version of vampires, but abiities that differ to fit their theme and is my combination now as no other guild give me all these options of weapons and power. and as I tried plenty of other guilds, for test purposes only or to be at a place to help with member activity. Warlock's spells of STR and burden will be as helpful and good after the race update and for me personally would close guilds be worse then any update that is the same for us.

I left the Discord Community to fully experience the game in roleplay mode only, distant from rumors, chats talks, or anything else that was part of my life there.. I enjoy the gameplay the most when I hear nothing from nobody, or have that personality to lift ideas and opinions. Something that for me consumed all energy, as its a relief to not know or see anything but the real activity in game.. and I encourage anyone that is in headache of drama to enjoy the game more and put pause on discord channel, something that for me individually made my gameplay more fun.

Genesis gameplay don't have to be one personality that is one race, guild and life for 20 years, alts is the best parts of the game and that hero or titan life can be so much more then the grind of trolls, quali elves, gk npcs that require more and more time to get a progress.. let the game be me more roleplay and fun, relax with the endless grind.. this game isnt about size or progress counter, or rankings, or the most powerful goblins that lead str and con, as this game isnt a script bot life place to have fun at either. as i am maybe the most insane grinder if you would see me active and i have been that way since the days of Kabal. I can pressure an area or a place for 15 hours straight, at the assist of baz train where i was always attentive and in chats,or leading Yeren in Terel for a week as Calian, manually in control to run the areas, as i am more efficient manually, and beat any scriptplay in this game.. ofcourse scripting has been part of life, joining a Ogre guild that was all about skull hunt or run for imbues in smaller areas. ive never played this game from work and i am lifeless on a level where its maybe unhealthy or to much in gameplay as i grind for hours without pause.. I believe that many of us is like me, as we all are addicted to the gameplay - but so many of us is labeled to be scripters back and forth.. But for me if i run in an area with help of a file attentive is better then be afk in teams of hours behind a leading friend, getting xp for free.

I hope everyone that is upset of changes calm down and relax, goblins will drink 2 wines less but fight better at Cathedral, something that the game is in need of is the areas for good align characters to kill, as neutral and evil has so many places to grind and kill, which make the road to myth much much tougher for a good align character.. as a change in align for kabal and many many other places could be changed to neutral for a balanced game for all that race update can never reach..

My own reflection on this fear of Vampires getting all powerful have I not seen much growth in any of the vampires, that make them OP in ways that the guild makes them swoosh up in Rankings, same 2 vampires have i passed with 5 recoverys of a total of 4500 progs with the same character and vampire that barely moved up. The race update will boost all races and guilds in ways that vampires wont experience, that little bonus to all stats is nothing special, as Doomseekers, Neidar, Kenders, Halflings, Mages and all of the entire playerbase to grow quicker and be enhanced by this race update, just to explain how bad the assumption of it to be made for vampire characters in game. And if a vampire can take out a Nazgul. let them do it as FBB isnt that special with combat update as i found better combos of weapons that cost 200 platinum that beat FBB, SoH, Azure etc, as they inflict regular damage..

Anyways. have a fun gameplay and dont drop out of the game like a little kid that has decided that everything suck and read all threads of opinions and ideas. But to read a thread written like Nils dont have to end up with arguements or a counterattack of why and who he is - and his note or my note now dont have to be cut down in arguements where he is wrong, or this comments is true or false. I share wisdom and experience from alot of gameplay and non of my comments is to change anyone, as im rather a mediator in role when i write to write something that show appreciation to everyone involved without beef or drama.. As positivity and my words is to change an enviorment that feel a little hostile in moments, for all to be relaxed for the upcomming future. Try to not be emotionally involved in topics, as updates that hurt your life or comments that downgrade anyone.. For me personally I admire a fellow like Nils, he has been involved deeply in topics of ideas and things that could be implemented and I like all of his notes, as he take any topic and write his reflections and ideas on a level that show alot of passion and engagement. a personality in game and in this forum that for me personaly is special and unique - and this was the guy that i hated the most 1999 where we tried to kill eachother as the beef was all over. 'Nils, never change, dont leave the game, continue to write threadss, you are appreciated.'

A change for you is a change for all, its as balanced as it can be - dont take it personally, ever.

The new OP combo will be found, the gnome won Gladiator Arena battle once named Xogh

I am 100 % sure that we havent played the best Genesis game yet, the game we played in 90's have alot of good memories, but it was played in a world without unique wepaons and great xp areas. They experienced a big stat purge back then that changed their powers, i never heard a negative word of that purge and I since that day have this game changed to the better, year by year.. take your time reading all old Gorboth's year resume notes as he did his absolute best to improve this game we play up to today, its hundreds of improved, created content, guilds, content and changes that have all been great.. A little race update is not as huge as people imagine - it will be experienced the same way as new combat.

The game will be better and better and I hope for 10 big updates in the future, its only a result of an active game that im part of. Changes never changed me, I found my ways to use them all to my advantage, it just require art of grind and knowledge... and in 2030 Gladiators might get club skilll and Gladiator AA will be optimal choice for 10 active players,, as it balanced out these last year of DO, Vampire and Warlock members in amount. Keep up with your works wizards and players, i havent experienced 30 % of Genesis yet, as I never tried casters or joined a guild that require long time to join as in tasking and time, ive experienced nothing yet - in this game evolving to the best game ever. I wouldnt transport myself back to 100 people active in 90's and be killed in a minute by huge teams. As the crazy years involved alot of pfighting, something that hurt valued time played for anyone.

And for all people that want to change something or create something, dont write a long thread about it - apply to wizhood, its special to have created something that is in game. From the smallest thing to guilds, but always trust the Keeper and AoB teams, they see the game with eyes that value the gnome, kender and you equally able to play a game as maybe the ego and the 200 fantastics into Myth life will be affected by a change of constitution for goblins, as the Myth content that was created for teams is changed from solo to team, as teaming is one of the best ways to roleplay, have fun and dont worry about the future, it will be better and better.

When I listened to all negative feedback on new combat system, it was hours to grind.. double time to make tiny progress i believed all negative feedback and felt like the game has changed to the worse, until i played it myself.. Discord and these forum threads involve alot of personal opinions and in update changing times maybe not the best place to be at or read about as it can result in a negative feeling as its just negativity in reaction to that player in that moment.

Maybe is the negativity a reaction of a game that is played without fun, joy and energy. As its in each and everyone of us to understand that these changes are for the better. Its unhealthy to believe that the future of Genesis will be worse or bad, or that these changes would harm anyone so much that one have to quit. A positive mindset is alot, and all negative reactions that i read on discord on combat came out wrong, I found my way to find the combat update to be much better, as a combat with an npc is a real fight, instead of a 2 hit trollshaw troll that die like ants in Sparkle.

A combat update that made this game much better, and im glad i left discord server to not hear negative feedback or be a product of it, as all negative feedback of peoples new life drained my energy to the worse.

A novel or a book to read, but i will avoid forum and discord in an active gameplay until the race update, i am 100 % sure that the feedback will be really good and happiness will be found.. After 2 weeks of gameplay or a month, that changed stat that all fear now to be nerfed for goblins can't be analyzed the first days... and regardless of how big stats is or how much we are nerfed, Equipment matter alot, as its one of the biggest factors in combat, else then CAID, skills, specials and spells.. the race thing is just a small detail in the big picture, that feels huge now.. A change of skills, equipment and other things that is needed would change the gameplay to tougher.. Stats is just a small thing and constitution isnt needed in darkness or the main factor in combat, a legend can outperform a big myth with huge Con with items, herbs spells, skill and guildabilities.. dont fear the race update stat change, it wont change your life much at all.

If anyone is in doubt of how little STR and CON matter, study Ogres.. its not their strength that do any damage, its the 2 x Sledgehammers they wield and their huge constitution need elite ogre gear to be able to tank, Yet, ogres need a layman as they are in need of more abilities from evade in pirates, added damage in Angmar .. or Templar, Warlock or any other race. 1 vs 1 isnt won with rankings nr 1 STR and CON, and this game isnt goblin game now..

Regards,

Wolverine

[zizuph]

Unfortunately threads like this often end up derailing conversations, try to draw attention to different causes, and leave existing problems in place.

So with that I just want to say a few things.

The loudest voice does not get special say in things. Nor does the one with the most F-bombs, or the one who thinks they can out debate the Keeper publicly to sway people over to their ideas.

As Cherek said, many ideas are suggested and many of them are discussed and evaluated internally. Their soundness matters, and as the game is set up the wizards are the only ones that have full access to the data to evaluate them.

If you feel you don’t have enough of a voice, come take up the work of being a wizard. In the end we have to actually commit the effort to making these things happen. I’ll likely have to put in a hundred or more hours to help make this project happen, which follows similar effort sizes on spell enhancers, resistance, ranger recode, fixing up all sorts of mage playability improvements, and such.

These things take commitment and effort, and we have to pick the ones that make the most sense for the community, because we do not have the manpower to pursue them all.

It is easy to shout ideas and sway people. But like rabble rousers versus actual government, the former simply takes a bullhorn and the other takes a whole lot of effort and is always open to complaints no matter what the action or inaction.

[Zhar]

So now there’s a combat optimized race on both sides of the spectrum, what about the humans?
Quickly, imagine Hafthor Bjornsson next to Gandalf and ask yourself: Do you really think all their stats are equal from birth? That Gandalf could deadlift 501kgs and Hafthor could cast spells if their parents somehow switched them at birth? Surely some are born to do something, so why can’t we choose to be Hafthor or Gandalf?

I just wanted to point out that this comparison is kinda bad because Gandalf wasn't human. He was a Maia, an immortal and very powerful spirit (he has more in common with Balrogs and Sauron - who are also Maiar - than humans). So, Gandalf's stats are off the charts in all aspects really (I mean, he did fight Balrog 1v1 in melee and got a draw out of it).

Just wanted to clarify this

[Quantum]

So now there’s a combat optimized race on both sides of the spectrum, what about the humans?
Quickly, imagine Hafthor Bjornsson next to Gandalf and ask yourself: Do you really think all their stats are equal from birth? That Gandalf could deadlift 501kgs and Hafthor could cast spells if their parents somehow switched them at birth? Surely some are born to do something, so why can’t we choose to be Hafthor or Gandalf?

I just wanted to point out that this comparison is kinda bad because Gandalf wasn't human. He was a Maia, an immortal and very powerful spirit (he has more in common with Balrogs and Sauron - who are also Maiar - than humans). So, Gandalf's stats are off the charts in all aspects really (I mean, he did fight Balrog 1v1 in melee and got a draw out of it).

Just wanted to clarify this

So when is the maiar racial guild open? Sounds like something I would like to try. I always wanted take on the Balrog 1v1 and a draw sounds good to me.

[Tapakah]

So when is the maiar racial guild open? Sounds like something I would like to try. I always wanted take on the Balrog 1v1 and a draw sounds good to me.

The tax on that guild would be in the high 90s.

[Zhar]

So now there’s a combat optimized race on both sides of the spectrum, what about the humans?
Quickly, imagine Hafthor Bjornsson next to Gandalf and ask yourself: Do you really think all their stats are equal from birth? That Gandalf could deadlift 501kgs and Hafthor could cast spells if their parents somehow switched them at birth? Surely some are born to do something, so why can’t we choose to be Hafthor or Gandalf?

I just wanted to point out that this comparison is kinda bad because Gandalf wasn't human. He was a Maia, an immortal and very powerful spirit (he has more in common with Balrogs and Sauron - who are also Maiar - than humans). So, Gandalf's stats are off the charts in all aspects really (I mean, he did fight Balrog 1v1 in melee and got a draw out of it).

Just wanted to clarify this

So when is the maiar racial guild open? Sounds like something I would like to try. I always wanted take on the Balrog 1v1 and a draw sounds good to me.

It's been open for ages. You can apply at the wizard's application board.

[Quantum]

I just wanted to point out that this comparison is kinda bad because Gandalf wasn't human. He was a Maia, an immortal and very powerful spirit (he has more in common with Balrogs and Sauron - who are also Maiar - than humans). So, Gandalf's stats are off the charts in all aspects really (I mean, he did fight Balrog 1v1 in melee and got a draw out of it).

Just wanted to clarify this

So when is the maiar racial guild open? Sounds like something I would like to try. I always wanted take on the Balrog 1v1 and a draw sounds good to me.

It's been open for ages. You can apply at the wizard's application board.

Awesome, I would definitely consider that. Paying 99% guild tax to join the wizard Maiar guild seems fair