Genesis racestat modifiers, claim.

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Kas
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Re: Genesis racestat modifiers, claim.

Post by Kas » 06 Jan 2013 21:37

What about some diminishing return above certain level?
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Cherek
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Re: Genesis racestat modifiers, claim.

Post by Cherek » 06 Jan 2013 21:52

Zhar: I do not understand why my suggestion would not work? You speak of stat differences because of mortal size and experience gained. The topic is about stat differences between races. Its another discussion. For the racial differences discussion I think my suggestion would work very well.

And if CON is so superior, then why doesnt everyone just focus on that and absolutely nothing else? Or maybe people do and I am not very updated about these things...

Is con the new dex?:)

Well if str, dex and con isnt all more or less equally useful, then my suggestion wont work all the way of course. But I am not so sure con is king, at least not in all situations / guilds.

Greneth

Re: Genesis racestat modifiers, claim.

Post by Greneth » 06 Jan 2013 22:04

Cherek wrote:Greneth: Your suggestion doesnt really make any sense... We're talking about racial differences in stats. Not guild spells and skills. Btw, a goblin is probably also the best caster race with our current magic system. Or thats my guess anyway, I dont have any data to back it up, but it would make sense, at least if the caster is solo. As a supporting spellcaster in a team I suppose mentals are more useful still.

Anyway, I cant see any reason NOT to make things equal (similar to what I suggested), but thats just my personal opinion. I dont know what those actually in charge think about the matter, but why we would on purpose want to have a game with such imbalances I cant find any argument for.
You give me headaches, seriously. Fluffy is not the new Meta, turn Msn or Skype off and quit listening to others.

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Kas
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Re: Genesis racestat modifiers, claim.

Post by Kas » 06 Jan 2013 22:16

The problem with con vs dex/str I belive is something like this: Con increases your hp-pool in a linear fasion(I assume), so even with the differences in racial modifiers, in the "endgame", the actual or total hp-pool for a dwarf vs an elf won't necessarily be that huge, and it's equal for everyone, melee or caster alike. It scales the same.

Str and Dex may be factors in equations calculating damage, and using for example STR _multiplied_ with some other factor, even _small_ actual differences in racial modifiers alone can have a very huge impact in damage that really starts to shine at myth++ in a nonlinear fasion. Might aswell be exponential.

I heard of X, Y, and Z with pure damage alone, no ability tankrotate or heal, with imbuements, literary butchered the balrog with little to no effort. The hearsay about "oneshotting" stuff with the right gear (particulary the giant steel broadsword), focused stats and imbuements supercharging said stats...it really starts to sound plausible to me, and reminds me of an exponential function than anything else.

Somehow, somewhere, we may have lost the ball and measures like hardcap, diminising return etc starts to make alot more sense.
Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

Gû kîbum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi. Akha - gûm-ishi ashi gurum!

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Zhar
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Re: Genesis racestat modifiers, claim.

Post by Zhar » 06 Jan 2013 22:55

Cherek wrote:Zhar: I do not understand why my suggestion would not work? You speak of stat differences because of mortal size and experience gained. The topic is about stat differences between races. Its another discussion. For the racial differences discussion I think my suggestion would work very well.
The idea you proposed, with races having different stats but ending up equal in average, would not work because it doesn't address the problem as it's pretty much what is in place right now. In the example you posted every average is equal, true enough, but then if you compare goblin and elf you see [numbers removed] point difference in strength and dexterity which, given the [numbers removed] average in the example, is pretty damn huge.

Average isn't the way to go. Making everyone completely equal at certain point could solve the issue (you reach supreme and that's it, supreme = supreme not supreme > supreme or supreme < supreme as it is now.
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Cherek
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Re: Genesis racestat modifiers, claim.

Post by Cherek » 06 Jan 2013 23:15

Zhar wrote:
Cherek wrote:Zhar: I do not understand why my suggestion would not work? You speak of stat differences because of mortal size and experience gained. The topic is about stat differences between races. Its another discussion. For the racial differences discussion I think my suggestion would work very well.
The idea you proposed, with races having different stats but ending up equal in average, would not work because it doesn't address the problem as it's pretty much what is in place right now. In the example you posted every average is equal, true enough, but then if you compare goblin and elf you see [numbers removed] point difference in strength and dexterity which, given the [numbers removed] average in the example, is pretty damn huge.

Average isn't the way to go. Making everyone completely equal at certain point could solve the issue (you reach supreme and that's it, supreme = supreme not supreme > supreme or supreme < supreme as it is now.
Races have far from equal physical stats as it is now. It's not at all what's in place now. You must have misunderstood my suggestion?

In my suggestion races have EQUAL combat stats. The only way it would not work is if one combat stat is clearly superior to the rest, which I doubt is the case now. Yes, in my example a goblin will have 40 points more str than an elf, but an elf will have 40 points more dex, and they're equal in con. I'd say if anything the elf might have the edge, but they should be pretty equal I think. What makes you feel it would not be balanced? You mean str means so much more than dex in combat?

Greneth: Huh? Fluffy? Msn and Skype? if you have some arguments to why I am wrong, please present them. Being rude and making things up out of the blue doesnt help. For your information, I dont even own Skype and I have in total 3 people on MSN that play Genesis, and two of them havet played in a long while. I have even made an effort not to add people on MSN because I have enjoyed the game better without it, staying out of rumors and drama. Whatever I say here is based on what I have seen myself in the game during the 15+ years I've been a part of the community. I am not saying its 100% right, its what I think. Thats all, feel free to disagree, but do it respectfully and argue for your case if you want. Okay?
Last edited by Cherek on 06 Jan 2013 23:22, edited 1 time in total.

Laurel

Re: Genesis racestat modifiers, claim.

Post by Laurel » 06 Jan 2013 23:19

I love how you guys speculate ...

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Cherek
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Re: Genesis racestat modifiers, claim.

Post by Cherek » 06 Jan 2013 23:23

Laurel wrote:I love how you guys speculate ...
I love how I always end up in these discussions. I should really know better.:)

Greneth

Re: Genesis racestat modifiers, claim.

Post by Greneth » 07 Jan 2013 01:48

Cherek wrote:
Zhar wrote:
Cherek wrote:Zhar: I do not understand why my suggestion would not work? You speak of stat differences because of mortal size and experience gained. The topic is about stat differences between races. Its another discussion. For the racial differences discussion I think my suggestion would work very well.
The idea you proposed, with races having different stats but ending up equal in average, would not work because it doesn't address the problem as it's pretty much what is in place right now. In the example you posted every average is equal, true enough, but then if you compare goblin and elf you see [numbers removed] point difference in strength and dexterity which, given the [numbers removed] average in the example, is pretty damn huge.

Average isn't the way to go. Making everyone completely equal at certain point could solve the issue (you reach supreme and that's it, supreme = supreme not supreme > supreme or supreme < supreme as it is now.
Races have far from equal physical stats as it is now. It's not at all what's in place now. You must have misunderstood my suggestion?

In my suggestion races have EQUAL combat stats. The only way it would not work is if one combat stat is clearly superior to the rest, which I doubt is the case now. Yes, in my example a goblin will have 40 points more str than an elf, but an elf will have 40 points more dex, and they're equal in con. I'd say if anything the elf might have the edge, but they should be pretty equal I think. What makes you feel it would not be balanced? You mean str means so much more than dex in combat?

Greneth: Huh? Fluffy? Msn and Skype? if you have some arguments to why I am wrong, please present them. Being rude and making things up out of the blue doesnt help. For your information, I dont even own Skype and I have in total 3 people on MSN that play Genesis, and two of them havet played in a long while. I have even made an effort not to add people on MSN because I have enjoyed the game better without it, staying out of rumors and drama. Whatever I say here is based on what I have seen myself in the game during the 15+ years I've been a part of the community. I am not saying its 100% right, its what I think. Thats all, feel free to disagree, but do it respectfully and argue for your case if you want. Okay?
Fair enough, respectfully your wrong. You must calculate guilds into the equation because certain abilities and specials are dependent on certain stats. Therefore just because a goblin has high combat stats it means jack when a special is based off Int which as Khar stated 90% of which is where the damage comes from, some people think is unfair because they do not know how to properly use the guilds and races they chose to the best of their ability.

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Cherek
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Re: Genesis racestat modifiers, claim.

Post by Cherek » 07 Jan 2013 03:10

Greneth: Well, from the information we mere mortals get it sure seems like the goblins are far superior combat-wise. I consider myself one in that matter since I never had access to any of this type of info as a wiz. What do you base your theories on?

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