Racestat modifiers, 'ere we go again!

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Should race stat modifiers be changed?

YES
30
58%
NO
15
29%
I don't care
7
13%
 
Total votes: 52

Rincon
Great Adventurer
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Racestat modifiers, 'ere we go again!

Post by Rincon » 17 Jan 2013 22:04

Sooo... the previous topic got closed due to certain peoplez revealing too much info. Very naughty folks. Even old G. got heated.

Let's get back to the discussion and come up with some ideas how to remedy the problem (if we decide that there is a problem) with race stat modifiers.

So, in general:

goblins: too much str and con, while dex being same as humans, mentals don't matter in combat. In combat rankings there are only goblins (Rhynox is an exception to the rule :P)
humans: equal everywhere (noone has a problem with that?)
dwarves: dex too low
gnomes: are there any gnome players active at all? Icarus? why so few? maybe due to crappy stat modifiers
hobbits: since dex matters less in combat now, we can hardly see any hobbits around, so too low str and con, similar problem to gnomes
elves: could use higher con and str, dont need such huge mentals

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Strider
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Re: Racestat modifiers, 'ere we go again!

Post by Strider » 17 Jan 2013 22:26

Rincon wrote:Let's get back to the discussion and come up with some ideas how to remedy the problem (if we decide that there is a problem) with race stat modifiers.
I think you put the cart (poll) before the beating of the possibly dead horse, such that I am not sure we'll get much of anywhere.

Still, I think that the race-stat-modifier discussion is eerily similar to the imbument-stat-modifiers conversation with the concerns seeming to congregate around the top-end of the size curve.
The preceding collection of words was presented by Strider's Player.
Any meaning you ascribe to them is most likely due to lucky happenstance or your misinterpretation.

If you'd prefer Strider's opinion, you'll probably have to ask for it in game.

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Cherek
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Re: Racestat modifiers, 'ere we go again!

Post by Cherek » 18 Jan 2013 03:22

Well, since the last topic got closed I'll be very careful this time and not say any numbers at all. Not even made up hypothetical ones. Anyway, my suggestions was simply to change the modifiers so all races have the same average combat stats. Exactly the same.

So if you have lots of strength and con, you'll have really poor dex. Like dwarves now. And goblins cannot have average in one combat and above average on two, that makes them too powerful. So they also need a drawback stat. And so on, so in the end all races have the same combat stat average.

That is what I would change. Since the combat stats mean so much in Genesis today, I think we need to tweak them so all races have the same number of combat stats.

And then we just do the same for mental stats.

Although, this type of balancing only works if we assume that STR, DEX and CON are equally valuable. And for mentals, that INT, WIS and DIS are equally valuable. If one stat is clearly better than the others, like DEX was a bunch of years ago, then even this way wont make it balanced all the way. I dont know how balanced these stats are, probably more so now compared to when DEX was the thing, but either way, I think evening out the race modifier averages within the two stat groups, combats, and mentals, is a step in the direction of better balance.

Making stat differences more slight is another.

Or even making stats equal land give races something else to make they different. Like a special ability for each race. Then you can "start from scratch" with these abilities and make them balanced from the start. Thats would probably be the most balanced solution by far, that would work best with our current pretty messy setup of stats and races...

Oh right, I votes yes of course. I do think the game would benefit from having balanced races. Especially from a PVP-perspective. And its no secret I'd like to see that happen again. More than the current "I killed a botter"-PVP, which really isnt the funniest kind of PVP for anyone...

Amberlee
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Re: Racestat modifiers, 'ere we go again!

Post by Amberlee » 18 Jan 2013 04:25

Get ready to be shocked Cherek.



I completely agree with what you said here.
There is absolutely NO drawback with balancing the races.
And for racial special abilities(Which I am a HUGE fan of) it is rather easy to conjure up a list of possible abilities for the different races.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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Cherek
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Re: Racestat modifiers, 'ere we go again!

Post by Cherek » 18 Jan 2013 05:09

*gasp* We agree on anything else but to disagree!:)

No, coming up with a balanced special ability for each race probably isnt that hard. Implementing it may be, I dont know. But it doesnt _sound_ too hard.

Amberlee
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Re: Racestat modifiers, 'ere we go again!

Post by Amberlee » 18 Jan 2013 10:14

Now its hardly very hard :p
Its just a matter of wanting to do it.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

Rincon
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Re: Racestat modifiers, 'ere we go again!

Post by Rincon » 18 Jan 2013 11:02

I also agree with Cherek. Perhaps the idea has some drawbacks, but still it is not as FLAWED as the current system and I think it should be implemented as soon as possible.

A question to the AoB, is there any justification for the current racestat modifiers to exist (who decided and what was his reasoning for goblins to have insane str,con, for elves to have puny str,con, etc.)? It was thought of back in the early 90ties when the game was being developed. I feel that it is long overdue and needs to be changed, so that it fits into the current balance system.

Draugor, from what I understand Cherek is actually suggesting that stat differences between races should exist.

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OgreToyBoy
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Re: Racestat modifiers, 'ere we go again!

Post by OgreToyBoy » 18 Jan 2013 17:18

Why can't you get to set your stats when creating your character?
Sure we will all be running about with strong durable races but that's
pretty much what all are doing these days anyway.

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Cherek
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Re: Racestat modifiers, 'ere we go again!

Post by Cherek » 18 Jan 2013 17:26

Ogre, thats also a suggestion. Although what if you make a mistake? Or if we at some time change how valuable a stat is? Like we did with dex? I think you would need to be able to change your settings. I mean consider if we got a real newbie who thought wisdom was really important, then understaind it really isnt that important? Thats no fun. It also makes it harder to change your role within the game. If you created a char with lots of int and wis for spellcasting and then wanna become a fighter, you kinda need to create a new char, or suffer from being much worse than other fighters?

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Kas
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Re: Racestat modifiers, 'ere we go again!

Post by Kas » 18 Jan 2013 18:43

I'd vote for same modifiers for all + racial bonus/ability, or/and equalize the race modifiers so they just are marginal.
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