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Kas, same modifiers but distributed differently between races (e.g. goblins will have X str, Y dex, Z con, whereas a dwarf would have Z con, X dex, Y con) but the total would be the same for each race? Or same modifiers for each stat?

Same = equally distributed. Or, the modifiers are very very small, so even at the "endgame" stuff don't get too extreme.

Cherek wrote:If you created a char with lots of int and wis for spellcasting and then wanna become a fighter, you kinda need to create a new char, or suffer from being much worse than other fighters?

This is why we should consider changing the stat selection system from allocation limiting to results limiting.

[url=https://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=17470#p17470]In the other thread,[/url] petros wrote:Most perceptions of inequality about race have to do with people who have skewed vastly their improvements. So they have crazy stats in one category, while lame stats in another. This makes their mortal levels seem small, but they actually pack more wallop. So a hero may be able to beat a champion.

This reality and the resulting perception could be limited using a resulting stat proportion limiting system (as above).

Rincon wrote:Let's get back to the discussion and come up with some ideas how to remedy the problem (if we decide that there is a problem) with race stat modifiers.

It seems to me that most of the arguments for there being a racial stat modification problem are predicated on the "reality" that there is a large imbalance in the usefulness of each stat.

Rather than addressing the symptom, what if we evened out stats relative utility?

We've discussed how DIS could be made the most important combat aid stat and as long as I am cavalierly kicking over the combat apple-cart, we could certainly add INT-based insightful strikes or WIS-based intuitive defense as well, although I think one or both of those stats direct combat aid should be tempered by their direct application utility in magic.

I am curious to hear why those if you who voted no, voted so? So far we have only the opinions of those who voted yes.

What argument for not balancing the races is there? I just cant think of one myself, but that doesnt mean there arent any.

I voted "I don't care". Racestat modifiers are really low on the list of things that bother me or require any immediate attention in my opinion.

I think that all players who play goblins will vote 'no' for obvious reasons

Rincon wrote:I think that all players who play goblins will vote 'no' for obvious reasons

Well, thats why I asked. And if it is why people voted no, it is a valid reason, I'd just wish people would say why they voted no so we know. If changing it angers a lot of goblin players, that is something to consider as well.

Cherek wrote:What argument for not balancing the races is there? I just cant think of one myself, but that doesnt mean there arent any.

Is this a rhetorical flourish or do you not see the arguments in these two threads that could explain not favoring some unspecified change to racial stat modifiers?

I see something along the lines of the following in these two threads:

• That this is a problem has not been substantiated.
• Racialized stat divergence is good in and of itself.
• Racial stat modifiers are not a problem in and of themselves.
• The arguments presented against the current racial stat modification system are laughable.
• Racial stat modifiers do not affect how fast you grow.
• Existing softcaps might make the problem negligible.
• Racial stat modification direct combat aid is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
• Solving the overarching large-stat issue makes the racial modification issue go away.
• Any dumb idea from the ignorant people providing such ideas is stupid.
• The various suggested solutions are not good or good enough.
• This entire argument is based on incorrect assumptions.
• There are more pressing issues.
• Goblins!

Mind you, this is just a quick reading of the threads and I don't know how anyone voted, but I would think it's possible that one or more of these might explain a "no" vote or two.

Strider: Okay, I stand corrected. People seem to have provided a few arguments after all. The main argument seem to be that there is no need since the balance today is perfectly fine.

Well... okay, that IS a valid argument. So sure, if you believe races are balanced, then I understand why someone would vote no. I dont think they are anywhere near balanced though, but thats me.

Does this also mean that the mentals should be equally balanced? A goblin caster will be as good as a elf caster?