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Interesting discussion though, even if nothing (for the moment) happens about it. I can only hope that the differences in regular combatstats don't break anything at the "endgame" in terms of competative pvp scirmishes.

Kas: Does your smiley mean you're being sarcastic about endgame pvp? In my opinion imbalanced races is part of the problem why we have very little endgame pvp... its definitely not everything, but it doesnt help either.

I'm not sarcastic, Cherek. I understand that there's alot on the table/under progress, and stuff like this probably have to be queued like everything else, for not to mention properly investigated/rationaled, finding a workable solution that everyone can live with.

Personally, I would have investigated stuff like caps, diminishing returns, alternate functions for dis, wis and int in combat to weight up for the lack of str/dex and such, perhaps look into how much STR/DEX in addition effects magical weapon damage formulas + combat special formulas.

If it's as some claim that the differences in certain stats really make a huge impact in combat/pvp, then it's not exactly an incentive to conduct pvp and scirmishes if you know you enter combat with a huge disadvantage you cannot offset.

Kas wrote: If it's as some claim that the differences in certain stats really make a huge impact in combat/pvp, then it's not exactly an incentive to conduct pvp and scirmishes if you know you enter combat with a huge disadvantage you cannot offset.

That is how I feel might be the case now.

It sounded on you like we had some really good PVP going on currently and you were afraid a change to races might "break" it. Thats why I thought you were sarcastic.

There is no good competitive PvP going on.
One reason is the ridiculous effect of imbuements(especially stat enhancers.. see where im going with this?).. And then the goblin/dwarf severe race imbalance in combat.
It doesnt promote anything but staying away from the game right now.. Atleast avoid combat with goblins at all costs.
Now add those two together... an imbued goblin, and you have a godawful monster that no one other then a imbued bigger goblin can take down.

Kas wrote:I'm not sarcastic, Cherek. I understand that there's alot on the table/under progress, and stuff like this probably have to be queued like everything else, for not to mention properly investigated/rationaled, finding a workable solution that everyone can live with.

Personally, I would have investigated stuff like caps, diminishing returns, alternate functions for dis, wis and int in combat to weight up for the lack of str/dex and such, perhaps look into how much STR/DEX in addition effects magical weapon damage formulas + combat special formulas.

If it's as some claim that the differences in certain stats really make a huge impact in combat/pvp, then it's not exactly an incentive to conduct pvp and scirmishes if you know you enter combat with a huge disadvantage you cannot offset.

If you added some function that would make int and wis actually viable in melee combat, sure.. go for it..
Just make sure all races have an evenly balanced pool of stat points to take from.

I know that goblins are unbalanced...
But they are limited in some sense like:
- Entering Vingaard Keep, Kalaman.
- Neidars have bonus against goblins.
- They are autoattacked by some NPCs.

If we balance them to all other race do we cancel all this limitations and make goblins a regular race that is liked as any other race?

Those are drawbacks for what? 2 hours, while you solve certain quests?

And then I guess that most goblins never run into those problems again.
If you are evil, you probably just kill the guards at the entrance to Kalaman, and if you are good, you run around.
Kenders can't enter Kalaman either, and they don't really have the option to kill the guards, as kender must stay goodaligned..

I don't really see how those very few "drawbacks" matter anything for any goblin past GA level.

Creed wrote:Those are drawbacks for what? 2 hours, while you solve certain quests?

And then I guess that most goblins never run into those problems again.
If you are evil, you probably just kill the guards at the entrance to Kalaman, and if you are good, you run around.
Kenders can't enter Kalaman either, and they don't really have the option to kill the guards, as kender must stay goodaligned..

I don't really see how those very few "drawbacks" matter anything for any goblin past GA level.

If You want to roleplay or explore things and not only grind in areas you know, these limitations sometimes are annoying.
I don't say that they are HUGE, but they are there and shouldn't be forgotten.

No, I think these "you cant enter x and y" is pretty even to be honest. Goblins cant enter a few places true, but there are races and guild combinations that have it worse, and some that have it easier to travel than goblins. Its far from unique for goblins so I really dont think its such a big drawback especially for goblins, and even if it was I think such drawback should in any case be balanced against each other, not used as a way to balance stats. That, again, just makes it so much harder to balance.

Balance stats against other stats. Thats hard enough. Then balance special bonuses/drawbacks against each other if needed. I think it is easier to get a baalnced result that way.

Btw, can you enter VK/MT/Kalaman as a minotaur/orc/orc with goblin base by the way? Or by wearing a costume from the museum or other disguise? Not all goblins are goblins, we have a lot of minotaurs too with goblin base, do they suffer the same travel limitations?