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Racestat modifiers, 'ere we go again! 

Should race stat modifiers be changed?
YES 57%  57%  [ 29 ]
NO 29%  29%  [ 15 ]
I don't care 14%  14%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 51

Racestat modifiers, 'ere we go again! 
Author Message
No, from what I know they don't. That was fixed some time back.


21 Jan 2013 21:34
Myth

Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Posts: 1364
Location: Kristiansund, Norway
zar wrote:
I know that goblins are unbalanced...
But they are limited in some sense like:
- Entering Vingaard Keep, Kalaman.
- Neidars have bonus against goblins.
- They are autoattacked by some NPCs.

If we balance them to all other race do we cancel all this limitations and make goblins a regular race that is liked as any other race?


For Neidar its a guild feature.
However I'm all for removing those other restrictions.
And as Creed said.. The restrictions dont matter unless you are a newbie.

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21 Jan 2013 22:31
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Hero

Joined: 21 Feb 2011 19:17
Posts: 393
Creed wrote:
No, from what I know they don't. That was fixed some time back.

I cannot enter Kalaman/VK as minotaur (base goblin)


22 Jan 2013 21:50
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Adept
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Joined: 03 Mar 2011 20:15
Posts: 134
gorboth wrote:
[C]hanging the way stats play into combat would be one of the most significant things we could do to actually change the way the game plays. Therefore, it should be done with extreme caution, strong rationale, and not simply to "do something" to try to fix a perceived imbalance between racial options.

Exactly! Especially with our limited active coding resources, I am unable to wrap my head around the unifying principle of the "less discussion; more action!" faction in our community.

On the other hand, there are some serious overall game play, system level-issues on which we need to feel high-level buy-in and progress towards resolution. However, I would think that calling this a tier three issue in your top ten model, while encouraging further discussion should cover that need for the time being.

gorboth wrote:
[T]he main gripe is basically this: To compete for size and power in Genesis, the differences between the races is so profound that there are extreme winners and extreme losers.

This is why this is so much more than a racial modification issue.

One strand of this issue is the reality and the possibly warped perception of the reality, that the six stats are of unequal utility and can (or should) not be of equal use in general, and that the various different stat valuations in specific character builds invalidates the concept of balance.

Another strand of the issue is how favorable an environment Genesis is for min/maxing, with basically no mechanics that are interested in stat proportionality. There is basically no dynamic tension for character design between focus and generalization on both the individual and team levels.

Yet another strand of this issue is the amount of time and energy players have put into the game and the extreme size and exaggeration of differences that has allowed.

Further, all of this colored by the energy of a player community that has developed a package of predictable and not always productive ways of thinking about and discussing the game.

gorboth wrote:
Now, stepping back again and looking at this in the big picture, where does this stack for me in our list of things "to do" to really get the game in good shape?

I've often considered introducing building and ranking such a list as a topic of discussion, although my strong belief that such a thread would become an unmitigated shit-fest has stopped me short every time.

gorboth wrote:
As I've stated, I also consider it perilous if we were to rush to take steps that alter core gameplay. [...] But what would be more fun and interesting (and better design?) would be to have many different types of things worth achieving, and have each race better than the others at one or two of them.

I've been thinking that one of the ways to start getting at this would be a forward-looking and perhaps somewhat abstract discussion around magic and it's application and utility in Genesis.
  • Given my arguments for changing to a pro-risk growth system, I'm interested in changing the current model that favors exchanging tedium (herbing and passive mana-regeneration periods) for power in the magic system.
  • I wonder what would be acceptable levels of "burst", in terms of maximum-burn effect-per-second, moderate effect-per-second and the reasonable resulting recovery rates and power curves.
  • I think the impact of being able to cause effects outside of standard combat (prior to and lingering) does not receive enough consideration in our discussions of balance.
  • I am intrigued in the contention that mental stats are not even useful for magic, and what would be a acceptable gap between the reasonable stat allocations for primary magic-users, magic capable characters and primarily mundane builds.

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23 Jan 2013 02:59
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Hero

Joined: 21 Feb 2011 19:17
Posts: 393
May be we should tweak some of guilds specials to make them attractive to gnomes/hobbits/elves?

Like lets make mercenary special to be based HEAVILY on INT... then some of population will turn gnomes/elves to get maximize mercenary special.
Like lets make calian special to be based on DEX - HEAVILY... and some of population will turn elves/hobbits.

Lets bind guild specials to more mental stats and we will get more even distribution.


24 Jan 2013 08:39
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And lets base the evil fighter guilds' specials on int and wis..
Perhaps they won't all be gobbos after that. :)


24 Jan 2013 13:25
Site Admin
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
Posts: 2759
Well, adjusting specials is not a bad idea I think, but if we are gonna do things like that we also need to add actual information letting people know what stats their guild specials are based on. As it is now, I have heard as any many theories as there are specials, so changing it wont do much good unless we ease up on the secrecy a bit.

Which I think we should do anyway regarding stuff like what stats affects specials, guild XP and so on. We also have an imbalance between players in the game due to the fact that some people know things they should not, and have access to guild source code floating around, and wizards who dont have a problem finding out things for their friends, etc. Maybe not a huge problem, but I think it would be helpful to at least reveal more about what each stat do, in each guild. It would also make things more even since then everyone would know, not just a few.

Does wisdom really matter when casting spells? Or is it only guild XP? How much does guild XP do anyway, and how much do I have? Is there a maximum limit on how much I can get? How many times do I need to die down to veteran to max it? Is it different in different guilds? Does only STR matter for a monk? Do kattack really use INT? Does DIS make you fight better because you "feel calm again" more often? And the classic, is gladiator charge based on brutality?

And so on. Like you say, maybe some tweaks with these things can make some races more popular, but then we really need to start handing out better info about what stats really do.


24 Jan 2013 17:24
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Legend
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 17:54
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Perhaps abit uorthodox, but what if guilds had, let's say two specials thematically adjusted to fit certain stats? If you are a hobbit, you use nr1, if you are a goblin, you use nr.2 for best effect.

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24 Jan 2013 21:40
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Wizard
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Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09
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Kas wrote:
Perhaps abit uorthodox, but what if guilds had, let's say two specials thematically adjusted to fit certain stats? If you are a hobbit, you use nr1, if you are a goblin, you use nr.2 for best effect.


How about just tie specials to weapon skills?

Everyone could use slash/impale/crush/kick/whatever and it would count their skill with the weapon as special skill. All of those would share the same cooldown (only can use one at a time) and guilds could ovveride them as needed (so BDA slash would be better than regular slash for example).

Just a random thought.

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25 Jan 2013 04:58
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Great Adventurer

Joined: 04 Jun 2010 23:37
Posts: 168
How about removing modifiers all together once you reach supreme? So a goblin would reach supreme str faster than a human, but then it would increase without the modifier?

Then again, a dwarf would never reach supreme dex ;)


26 Jan 2013 18:47
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