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Client for Genesis (Mac/Win/Linux) (Insomnia adventures) 
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Zhar wrote:
Cherek wrote:
But, for quests... something I think would be really cool was if we have some type of marking for quest NPCs. You know like Diablo or WoW that has a question mark, or exclaimation mark, or whatever it is. So when you enter a room with an NPC who has a quest to give out, he is in a different color and has some sign after his name, maybe a ! or a ? or a Q perhaps, or simply the word "Quest".

I think that would be something really helpful, but not something that would ruin the experience at all. Just improve it. What do you think? Question is of course also exactly how you do it... but for some NPCs you can probably use their short desc, and for most using room desc + short desc probably works as "trigger"?


I think that marking NPCs who give out quests for the players is a great idea and should be done from within the game too, not just the client. Perhaps automatically adding some marker to their name/description could be done via mudlib. Something like this:

Code:
[Q] friendly jovial male hobbit.

[Q] Balthasar.


This would greatly improve the experience for both newbies and older players alike in my opinion.



Many NPCs that has quest already hint at them with things they say. Why not make all do the same. Let them mumble how they need some help or something else but don't make it too easy to spot just enough to understand that the NPC has something to say. We already have quest orbs to stear us in the right direction.


28 Jan 2013 01:44
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Zhar wrote:
Cherek wrote:
But, for quests... something I think would be really cool was if we have some type of marking for quest NPCs. You know like Diablo or WoW that has a question mark, or exclaimation mark, or whatever it is. So when you enter a room with an NPC who has a quest to give out, he is in a different color and has some sign after his name, maybe a ! or a ? or a Q perhaps, or simply the word "Quest".

I think that would be something really helpful, but not something that would ruin the experience at all. Just improve it. What do you think? Question is of course also exactly how you do it... but for some NPCs you can probably use their short desc, and for most using room desc + short desc probably works as "trigger"?


I think that marking NPCs who give out quests for the players is a great idea and should be done from within the game too, not just the client. Perhaps automatically adding some marker to their name/description could be done via mudlib. Something like this:

Code:
[Q] friendly jovial male hobbit.

[Q] Balthasar.


This would greatly improve the experience for both newbies and older players alike in my opinion.


Yeah, that would be the best solution. Actually, after thinking about it, its probably really tricky to do just in the client. So its probably better done in the game. Problem is of course that someone has to actually do it...:)


28 Jan 2013 03:31
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arcon wrote:
Many NPCs that has quest already hint at them with things they say. Why not make all do the same. Let them mumble how they need some help or something else but don't make it too easy to spot just enough to understand that the NPC has something to say. We already have quest orbs to stear us in the right direction.


Well, adding a [Q] is probably easier than to manually go through them all and have them mumble about the same thing. That would be a huge job I think, and it must fit thematically too. And even if you do it, they cant repeat it every 5th second, so.. that means players has to stand around waiting for NPCs to potentially say something.

Or we could fix so they all respond to the word "quest", but that would also be a huge task, but probably more doable. However, then you still need to walk around asking everyone "quest".

Why should we not want to make this part of the game easier? Quests is the thing most people complain about, and making it easier to at least FIND the quests is only good I think. Yes orbs help, but still, I'd say it would be a nice feature, and it would give a client something to color-trigger on too, making quest NPCs stand out from for anyone using the client. And you can make a color trigger on the Q mark in your own client too.

I really do not understand your argument that "we should not make it too easy". Why not make it easier? Why is it good if its harder to spot questmasters? You mean it removes some of the fun of finding them? Well.., I guess. Although I personally dont find that especially fun, its good to hear arguments from all viewpoints though. Please explain more why you think it would be bad to "mark" questmasters?


28 Jan 2013 03:42
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Cherek wrote:
arcon wrote:
Many NPCs that has quest already hint at them with things they say. Why not make all do the same. Let them mumble how they need some help or something else but don't make it too easy to spot just enough to understand that the NPC has something to say. We already have quest orbs to stear us in the right direction.


Well, adding a [Q] is probably easier than to manually go through them all and have them mumble about the same thing. That would be a huge job I think, and it must fit thematically too. And even if you do it, they cant repeat it every 5th second, so.. that means players has to stand around waiting for NPCs to potentially say something.

Or we could fix so they all respond to the word "quest", but that would also be a huge task, but probably more doable. However, then you still need to walk around asking everyone "quest".

Why should we not want to make this part of the game easier? Quests is the thing most people complain about, and making it easier to at least FIND the quests is only good I think. Yes orbs help, but still, I'd say it would be a nice feature, and it would give a client something to color-trigger on too, making quest NPCs stand out from for anyone using the client. And you can make a color trigger on the Q mark in your own client too.

I really do not understand your argument that "we should not make it too easy". Why not make it easier? Why is it good if its harder to spot questmasters? You mean it removes some of the fun of finding them? Well.., I guess. Although I personally dont find that especially fun, its good to hear arguments from all viewpoints though. Please explain more why you think it would be bad to "mark" questmasters?


Hijacking this thread to answer.

You are assuming that about the quests because that is what the CURRENT players say but they are also the ones that has turned Genesis into a grinding game and not a rp game. Back when there were more players and different types of players not everyone had all the quests done or even half of them done and they still didn't feel stressed about it. Finding a quest was a achievment in it self and then manage to make one was really cool. Some people enjoyed that.

By making everything so easy there is no sense of achievement and you will not get any players that come for the cool quests to come back. Besides there is no need to have all the quests done, I am lacking a lot of them AND I have been punished so I won't ever reach the quest limit.

Also you mention that what they say has to be thematical, how is (Q) thematical? I know it would be a huge job but I think it would fit in and make the quests feel a bit more special. I don't think there should be one same thing for every quest NPC that marks them. Maybe some talk or mumble and maybe just look like they have something to say if you exa them others might grumble etc.
And yes, you can't make them talk and grumble every 5 sec so yes players need to be lucky to run into a random NPC when (s)he says something. But if they pass by a lot of times they would see it and if it is a NPC thats hidden somewhere and they don't pass then either they should explore the possibility or maybe just not find that quest or maybe another player help and then we have the orbs.

Sorry about this. Blame Cherek!


28 Jan 2013 10:35
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The best thing would be to actually implement the "talk" function from Kabal globally. But we've strayed way off topic here (as usual).

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28 Jan 2013 12:04
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Yeah the talk function is really nice. I dont think we're too off topic. We are discussing if, and how, quest masters could be marked, by client or in game. And for that we also discuss if its a good or bad idea in general to mark quest NPCs.

I hear your arguments Arcon, I both agree and dont agree. I would like it to be that way, but I think those days are gone and wont return. I think we have a different game now, and it will be very hard to go back without doing several major changes, which seem quite unlikely. Why not make it a little bit easier for the type of players we have? I doubt the type of player you describe would be put off by a little Q and or color code anyway. Thats just a guess of course. I would like the Q and color code personally, I cant really speak for someone else.

Now, if we assume that changes to how NPCs talk and react, or adding a Q to them is unlikely to happen anytime soon, would it be possible to color code quest NPCs in the client anyway. Gruff? Thoughts?

Nobody says it has to be included in a hypothetical official client, but I think it would be at least interesting to consider if it's possible.


28 Jan 2013 17:36
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Another idea is to simply add a trigger to all quest NPCs making them talk to you, informing of possible jobs and what not, as soon as you enter the room if you haven't done the quest before. Similar to what this Carlsan NPC in Sparkle does.

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28 Jan 2013 19:35
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This is some impressive work, Gruff. Nice job!

What you are developing here is essentially an unofficial client specifically made for Genesis, which is fantastic, and I enthusiastically endorse. However, we definitely do have our own development for an official client very much underway which will involve lots of handshaking between our actual gamedriver and the client itself. Our client which is currently offered on our website is, at this point, pretty much a placeholder until our new version is ready for rollout.

Sandalphon has had to drop out of the picture for the forseeable future, which prompted Eowul to grab the baton and run with it. He's a regular sprinter - Eowul! He's been working with both Cotillion and Mercade who have been implementing gamedriver and mudlib support for the aforementioned handshaking between client and game.

In the end, it is looking like we'll have a very custom "official client" that does lots of things really well. Meanwhile, such efforts as those Gruff has undertaken are amazing to read about, and I look forward to seeing what comes of it as an alternative option for people who want to use things other than CMud, or our own current version.

G.

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29 Jan 2013 09:57
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gorboth wrote:
This is some impressive work, Gruff. Nice job!

What you are developing here is essentially an unofficial client specifically made for Genesis, which is fantastic, and I enthusiastically endorse. However, we definitely do have our own development for an official client very much underway which will involve lots of handshaking between our actual gamedriver and the client itself. Our client which is currently offered on our website is, at this point, pretty much a placeholder until our new version is ready for rollout.

Sandalphon has had to drop out of the picture for the forseeable future, which prompted Eowul to grab the baton and run with it. He's a regular sprinter - Eowul! He's been working with both Cotillion and Mercade who have been implementing gamedriver and mudlib support for the aforementioned handshaking between client and game.

In the end, it is looking like we'll have a very custom "official client" that does lots of things really well. Meanwhile, such efforts as those Gruff has undertaken are amazing to read about, and I look forward to seeing what comes of it as an alternative option for people who want to use things other than CMud, or our own current version.

G.

Yeah, I figured something was in the works when he posted his mudlib thing about GMCP. Mudlet also supports programming/reacting through GMCP and ACTP, so it would be useable through this client also. Anyhow, hopefully things from the mudlet client could inspire functions in the official client or viceversa. The more alternatives to telnet the better!

As far as progress goes, (both!) my harddrives on my macbook are failing, so I'm spending my time trying to save what I can through terminal, and haven't really had time to look at the mudlet thing. The mudlet code will survive the disaster though, just got to get some time to fix the last bits.

Quote:
Now, if we assume that changes to how NPCs talk and react, or adding a Q to them is unlikely to happen anytime soon, would it be possible to color code quest NPCs in the client anyway. Gruff? Thoughts?

Yeah, I just adding highlights to the NPC:s that give quests is a no brainer, and can be done by the end user very easily. I think the problem with the suggestions is that I have no idea who hands out quests in a broad sense. I could highlight the people that I know hand out quests, but it would be a very limited list.

If you want what you guys have been discussing, it would really need to be a collaborative effort where everyone adds their own bits of highlighting and you pool that in the same script for people to download. I think it might be a problem to actually get it done, because people might not bother adding this info where they already know where someone has a quest, but wants the ones that they don't know... Maybe you see what I'm getting at.


30 Jan 2013 11:04
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Amberlee's hijack and the resulting discussion has been moved to the General Discussion section. Stay on topic please.

G.

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30 Jan 2013 19:13
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