Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

A picture is worth a thousand words. And a log of thousands of words is worthy of being shared. Share your stories and experiences here.
Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.
User avatar
Amorana
Expert
Posts: 298
Joined: 04 Nov 2013 20:26

Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Amorana » 26 Nov 2013 22:31

Kiara wrote:And if they stop playing because of a group of people is trying to fight back against their aggression... well... what can I say. Guess they'll just have to do like anyone else? Don't join an aggressive type of guild if you cant accept being a target for repercussions. There are plenty of options to chose from if you don't want any of that. I don't think they mages think its so bad though... I mean obviously they like PVP or they wouldnt kill people, and now they have more reasons. I doubt they are hurting that much...
I guess the point is: where is the aggression? They killed Logg for a transgression (what it was, I don't know - but that's their business. They don't have to metagame if they choose not to.) And bullying can take several forms, including the posts in Sparkle, griefing, and other forms.

On that note: sharing guild abilities via a log on a board in Sparkle is a bit metagame to me, and imo doesn't belong on the Sparkle board, but hey, I don't get paid to make administrative decisions. And actually, neither does the admin! That said, if you are doing it in the logs forum, I'm fine with it -as Zar suggests, if you don't want it to be public knowledge, don't use it in public. And what you suggested earlier regarding being in a guild and revealing its abilities? You sorta do that yourself in your log.

What other aggression has the newest iteration shown? Crimes of long past haven't really been seen as much (as Windemere suggests) over the past year or so, perhaps more. Generally their attacks have been over someone else being aggressive in some way - killing a steed, attacking the mage on bot triggers, stealing a mage's kill.

So it's fine and dandy to say you're fighting against mage aggression - but don't be surprised if not everyone buys your argument. Since you like political analogies - I sorta think you're George Bushing for WMDs, here.



Oh, and just in case Ilrahil ever dons another "wig" on these forums - please note I fixed a couple of apostrophes in Kiara's note. See, I do it to everyone. :-P

Edited for restructuring.
Zhar wrote: "Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."

Windemere
Expert
Posts: 286
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 05:37
Location: Winterpeg

Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Windemere » 26 Nov 2013 23:01

Kiara wrote: I completely disagree with everything.:)

Accepting that people kill you whenever they feel like, and simply staying out of their way as best you can, just so they wont become sad and stop playing? Really?

And if they stop playing because of a group of people is trying to fight back against their aggression... well... what can I say. Guess they'll just have to do like anyone else? Dont join an aggressive type of guild if you cant accept being a target for repercussions. There are plenty of options to chose from if you dont want any of that. I dont think they mages think its so bad though... I mean obviously they like PVP or they wouldnt kill people, and now they have more reasons. I doubt they are hurting that much...

But, seriously, if the mages dont want to be bothered they're free to contact me and the others and try to solve the problem with diplomacy if they want. Although I find that quite unlikely to happen... yes they'll probably keep hunting me and other who oppose, and I will fight back. Why not? Thats how it works. How else should it work? And to say I am bullying the mages isnt really right... It's not like there is some type of mass hunt on mages, and tons of corpses. So far I've just seen them kill people who has tried... not the other way around. Maybe one day we'll get one!

I dont really understand your reasoning... but hey, you're completely free to stay out of the whole thing and voice your opinions.
Kiara, I completely accept your right to disagree with what I have written.

Though I believe you have misunderstood some of what I wrote. By no means am I suggesting that you should stay out of the mages so they "won't get sad and stop playing". Not once did I say that in those terms.

Secondly, reiterating what Amorana has said, my point was that your event is actually creating more Mage related aggression than in the past year. Something you are, purportedly, trying to fight. More deaths at the hands of Mages have occurred in the past two days than in quite some time. Mages, from my perspective, do not actually actively engage in PvP for random reasons. They are, as Amorana stated, often slighted or disrespected and use pvp as a means of punishment. I am sure any guild would respond similarly in similar circumstances. A knight would likely kill someone for killing their horse, an SU member for someone spitting on them, RP wise the Mages may have more reasons (insulting the King for example) but they still fit. Perhaps the issue is that Mages are often successful when they say they will kill someone.

Thirdly, What issue are the mages trying to solve with Diplomacy? You have declared a war against the Mages because they killed Logg? Because of you being slighted as a GA? Because of? They killed Logg for a particular reason. I do not know what it is, but they have stated numerous times that Mages do not kill people wantonly, they are given orders for a specific offense. RP wise, what reason would they have to want to talk to you? You pose no threat.

If you read nothing else of my post, read this part as it is the important one:

The entire reason for me posting the original note is this:

1. You are creating more Mage aggression through your event.
2. If any player felt they would be consistently attacked when they ventured out, whether they could fight it off or not, why try to interact with others.
3. Does this event solve a problem? Or does it make it worse or create a new one?

Windemere

Kiara
Champion
Posts: 610
Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Kiara » 26 Nov 2013 23:13

Amorana wrote:
Kiara wrote:And if they stop playing because of a group of people is trying to fight back against their aggression... well... what can I say. Guess they'll just have to do like anyone else? Don't join an aggressive type of guild if you cant accept being a target for repercussions. There are plenty of options to chose from if you don't want any of that. I don't think they mages think its so bad though... I mean obviously they like PVP or they wouldnt kill people, and now they have more reasons. I doubt they are hurting that much...
I guess the point is: where is the aggression? They killed Logg for a transgression (what it was, I don't know - but that's their business. They don't have to metagame if they choose not to.) And bullying can take several forms, including the posts in Sparkle, griefing, and other forms.

On that note: sharing guild abilities via a log on a board in Sparkle is a bit metagame to me, and imo doesn't belong on the Sparkle board, but hey, I don't get paid to make administrative decisions. And actually, neither does the admin! That said, if you are doing it in the logs forum, I'm fine with it -as Zar suggests, if you don't want it to be public knowledge, don't use it in public. And what you suggested earlier regarding being in a guild and revealing its abilities? You sorta do that yourself in your log.

What other aggression has the newest iteration shown? Crimes of long past haven't really been seen as much (as Windemere suggests) over the past year or so, perhaps more. Generally their attacks have been over someone else being aggressive in some way - killing a steed, attacking the mage on bot triggers, stealing a mage's kill.

So it's fine and dandy to say you're fighting against mage aggression - but don't be surprised if not everyone buys your argument. Since you like political analogies - I sorta think you're George Bushing for WMDs, here.



Oh, and just in case Ilrahil ever dons another "wig" on these forums - please note I fixed a couple of apostrophes in Kiara's note. See, I do it to everyone. :-P

Edited for restructuring.
I really dont feel like defending every step I take against mages. I dont like them. I proclaimed myself a mage hunter. I think I made my reasons clear? I think the reasons for killing Logg was stupid. Sure I probably only know Logg's side, but who do you think I believe? My friend Logg or mages who just says they have "another reason" but not sharing it. Pfft, I am going with my fellow brother's side. And just because it was years ago a mage killed me, doesnt mean I've forgotten it? If Etanukar offers his own life to me then we're even. Until then I'm gonna have a grudge towards him of course. Why shouldnt I? Those are my main personal reason for not liking mages. But mainly, why I started this whole thing is because I dont want to live in fear of mages like I have all my time here. It's enough! I think nobody should have to be afraid just because a black hooded person arrives. Simple as that.

This is a free for all PVP games, the rules on PVP are clearly described in help rules. Neither me nor any mage has broken any game rules whatsoever. I think this is pretty fun. If you dont, no need to take part. If mage player dont think its fun, then they dont need to take part either.

And if we have some rules about how logs can be posted then I dont know of them. Moderators are perfectly welcome to enlighten me if we do have some rules. I thought we had some policy not to post logs containing your own guild secrets, but you're right, its hard posting any log not doing that. Which really means we cant have a log section on the forum. I think either we can post logs or we cant. Or some very clear lines on what can be posted or not. I am just assuming you can post things you experience yourself in the game. That's a large part of Genesis history. Logs. We had sites just for logs, and as far as I remember people loved reading logs. And when Morrison killed me more than one person asked me for logs so... I think people enjoy logs now too!

I tried to post them in Sparkle only and have the auto-transfer have them show up here, but that never worked for some reason. Not sure why. So I decided to post them here manually. But the end result would have been the same anyway, logs in Sparkle and here.

And if we cant post or share logs in game... then I dont know what... The game is full of logs and books containing all sorts of information on guilds. Usually these stuff are found on guild boards or libraries. I have decided to make the stuff I know more public. I cant see how that would break any rule of any kind. Or be "wrong" either. Why would that be wrong? Because someone "doesnt like it"? Well I am sure people dont like being killed either... but uh... its a PVP game. It happens? It's part of the game. People fight, and enjoy theirselves. I think you're making such a big deal out of it. I am having fun. Feel free to do whatever you enjoy in the game too as long as you dont break any rules! And if mages dont like it and feel abused or something... they can bring it up if they want...

Kiara
Champion
Posts: 610
Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Kiara » 26 Nov 2013 23:25

Windemere wrote:
Kiara wrote:
1. You are creating more Mage aggression through your event.
2. If any player felt they would be consistently attacked when they ventured out, whether they could fight it off or not, why try to interact with others.
3. Does this event solve a problem? Or does it make it worse or create a new one?

Windemere
I read everything you wrote. Of course. Maybe I misunderstood... or you didnt explain it good enough. :P

But you did say:
Windemere wrote: Hopefully Mages will still enjoy playing, otherwise we might see another guild lose activity and move on.
It sure sounded like you were worried my "aggression" towards mages might mean they stop playing? Or stop being mages. Its hard to interpret that in any other way? Isnt that what you meant?

1. And yes obviously I am creating more mage aggression. I am kinda the aggressor here? That is the whole idea...

2. Like I said, if mages eventually feel they had enough of being constantly attacked (which I doubt is much risk, since its not happening), then they're perfectly fine to contact the ones attacking them to come to a solution. Just as in any conflict that has ever taken place in this game. I dont follow though. In one sentence you say I pose no threat so why would they talk to me about anything. In another you say my actions might cause them to stop playing and interact with others? Then there is a threat after all... or? Huh?

3. What problem? Is there a problem? I never said there is a problem of any kind. I am not looking to get mages nerfed or anything. I am looking to have a little fun fighting them. Whats wrong with that? If it solves a problem? It sounds so serious. Yes my goal is to show to the world mages arent so scary as they wanna pretend and enjoy the process. Yes there will definitely be more conflict because of it, but maybe eventually people will learn to counter mages and not be as afraid, and mages will be more careful when dealing with other players and guilds. Just as we always have been very careful when dealing with mages. And like I said its completely voluntarily.

I think conflicts are fun. Genesis is so BORING when everyone just go around minding their own business running on grind scripts all day. Now both forum and the game is definitely more active. Thats great!

User avatar
Amorana
Expert
Posts: 298
Joined: 04 Nov 2013 20:26

Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Amorana » 26 Nov 2013 23:31

Kiara wrote:I really dont feel like defending every step I take against mages.
This is quite the note in that case.
Kiara wrote:I dont like them. I proclaimed myself a mage hunter. I think I made my reasons clear? I think the reasons for killing Logg was stupid. Sure I probably only know Logg's side, but who do you think I believe? My friend Logg or mages who just says they have "another reason" but not sharing it. Pfft, I am going with my fellow brother's side. And just because it was years ago a mage killed me, doesn't mean I've forgotten it? If Etanukar offers his own life to me then we're even. Until then I'm gonna have a grudge towards him of course. Why shouldn't I? Those are my main personal reason for not liking mages. But mainly, why I started this whole thing is because I don't want to live in fear of mages like I have all my time here. It's enough! I think nobody should have to be afraid just because a black hooded person arrives. Simple as that.
That's sort of the point Windy and I are getting at. For the most part, no one has to be. *chuckle*
Kiara wrote:This is a free for all PVP games, the rules on PVP are clearly described in help rules. Neither me nor any mage has broken any game rules whatsoever. I think this is pretty fun. If you don't, no need to take part. If mage player don't think its fun, then they don't need to take part either.
Well, actually. You aren't necessarily giving them the choice when you are the one who attacks. If you're going to be running about attacking every mage you see, what reason do they have to do anything but move about in invisibility and hoard all invis-breaking items in game? That will be spectacular when instead of being afraid because a black robe shows up, you simply never see them anymore, and they never interact with anyone. :roll:
Kiara wrote:And if we have some rules about how logs can be posted then I don't know of them. Moderators are perfectly welcome to enlighten me if we do have some rules. I thought we had some policy not to post logs containing your own guild secrets, but you're right, its hard posting any log not doing that. Which really means we cant have a log section on the forum. I think either we can post logs or we cant. Or some very clear lines on what can be posted or not. I am just assuming you can post things you experience yourself in the game. That's a large part of Genesis history. Logs. We had sites just for logs, and as far as I remember people loved reading logs. And when Morrison killed me more than one person asked me for logs so... I think people enjoy logs now too!
A lot of us take time when we post logs to pull out guild abilities, and considering posts are frequently edited by the admin here to remove guild ability discussions, I'm actually a little surprised that yours hasn't been. But like I said, you shared this in the logs forum, I have no problem with that, I have a problem with the below for the reasons stated.
Kiara wrote:I tried to post them in Sparkle only and have the auto-transfer have them show up here, but that never worked for some reason. Not sure why. So I decided to post them here manually. But the end result would have been the same anyway, logs in Sparkle and here.

And if we cant post or share logs in game... then I don't know what... The game is full of logs and books containing all sorts of information on guilds. Usually these stuff are found on guild boards or libraries. I have decided to make the stuff I know more public. I cant see how that would break any rule of any kind. Or be "wrong" either. Why would that be wrong? Because someone "doesn't like it"? Well I am sure people don't like being killed either... but uh... its a PVP game. It happens? It's part of the game. People fight, and enjoy theirselves. I think you're making such a big deal out of it. I am having fun. Feel free to do whatever you enjoy in the game too as long as you don't break any rules! And if mages don't like it and feel abused or something... they can bring it up if they want...
Look up the definition of metagaming. You are posting what you see as a player into the world of the game. That is metagaming, and it breaks RP immersion. There's something vastly different between creating a book in a guild library and posting your personal log on the Sparkle board.
Zhar wrote: "Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."

Windemere
Expert
Posts: 286
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 05:37
Location: Winterpeg

Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Windemere » 26 Nov 2013 23:36

Kiara,

In respect to what I said about activity, I meant active involvement in the realms. We already don't see much of them. If they feel they will be bothered every time they come out then they might just stop interacting altogether. Out of site out of mind, like they don't exist in the realms at all.

I just wanted to clarify that these reasons are solely self-serving and that if it makes anyone else enjoy the game less then they should let you know so you can stop?

Windemere

Kiara
Champion
Posts: 610
Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Kiara » 26 Nov 2013 23:40

Amorana: Well I think we have very different opinions on these matters. We could of course continue qouting each other's notes for an eternity but I think think it's gonna lead anywhere. You feel the game should be played in one way in terms of RP, I have another view. We alsoo seem to have quite different opinions on what is fun in Genesis. We have different opinions on valid reasons for PVP. Very different opinions, or experiences, of the morgul mages in the game. So... maybe we should just leave it at that?:)

I think we've both shared our views on the matter.

As for rules about what and how things should be posted, and where, well thats not really for me to decide... If I had seen some rules or policies regarding this I would of course have followed them. I think my posts are perfectly fine in every way, you disagree, but well... thats how it is I guess. Sometimes you disagree.

Manglor
Rising Hero
Posts: 322
Joined: 16 Sep 2013 17:30
Location: Dieppe, NB, Canada

Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Manglor » 26 Nov 2013 23:43

Kiara wrote:ever since Kiara was born as was killed as great adventurer by a myth when doing the MM entrance quest.
Best reason to hold a grudge ever. Knowing your other incarnations though I am not surprised you hold this "grudge." *grin*

User avatar
Amorana
Expert
Posts: 298
Joined: 04 Nov 2013 20:26

Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Amorana » 26 Nov 2013 23:45

Kiara wrote:You feel the game should be played in one way in terms of RP, I have another view.
Indeed. I try to RP. You don't.
Zhar wrote: "Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."

Kiara
Champion
Posts: 610
Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Kiara » 26 Nov 2013 23:47

Windemere wrote:Kiara,

In respect to what I said about activity, I meant active involvement in the realms. We already don't see much of them. If they feel they will be bothered every time they come out then they might just stop interacting altogether. Out of site out of mind, like they don't exist in the realms at all.

I just wanted to clarify that these reasons are solely self-serving and that if it makes anyone else enjoy the game less then they should let you know so you can stop?

Windemere
Ok. I thought you meant they'd stop playing.

Well first of all I have so far attacked a total one 1 mage. I did so because he arrived and started breaking weapons of my friend Arcon, and then Yanus, and then attempted to break my weapons too. So its not like its some type of attack on sight thing going on from my side... not yet anyway. It sounds like thats what you think though? And you are right, I would not mind if it lead to that. I encourage people to fight, attack, and bother mages. Thats the whole idea. So far it has led to them interacting MORE than ever with the rest of the world. Not the the opposite.

If a mage contacted me and somehow felt abused and that they couldnt leave the tower then obviously I would listen to any suggestions on how to end hostilities. But I think we're very far from that point. So far its basically just me and a small group of people who oppose the mages directly, some more indirectly. And you seem to assume mages DONT enjoy this? It sure seemed like Morrison had a fun night yesterday, and I doubt Fluffy is sad for getting more reasons to PVP either?

Post Reply
http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/