Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

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Mersereau
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Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Mersereau » 27 Nov 2013 19:00

Celephias wrote: I have attacked 2 players since returning to Gen a few years ago. One was to repulse Hektor and team's aggressions (as an aside - he's got RP game is a great enemy) in Ithilien. The second was with the King on orders from the King. The only way we pfight is on direct orders, if attacked, or if someone is killing friendlies in Ithilien. You can argue whether or not you agree with the orders or the NPC protection, but the parameters are very clear.
NPC protection outside a guild hall has always been one of the biggest garbage reasons to playerfight.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."
-Mel Brooks

Arcon

Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Arcon » 27 Nov 2013 19:09

Mersereau wrote:
Celephias wrote: I have attacked 2 players since returning to Gen a few years ago. One was to repulse Hektor and team's aggressions (as an aside - he's got RP game is a great enemy) in Ithilien. The second was with the King on orders from the King. The only way we pfight is on direct orders, if attacked, or if someone is killing friendlies in Ithilien. You can argue whether or not you agree with the orders or the NPC protection, but the parameters are very clear.
NPC protection outside a guild hall has always been one of the biggest garbage reasons to playerfight.
Only when they protect a so called grinding area and they kill there themself. Otherwise I think it is ok for a guild to choose to protect NPCs that are affiliated with them and that are close to their guild hall, within reason of course.

Kiara
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Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Kiara » 27 Nov 2013 19:15

gorboth wrote:Amorana,

I so wish we could return to the standards you remember so fondly. I remember them fondly, too. We've drifted far from this. What do you suspect it would take to get us back? Enforcement by wizards? We hardly have enough wizards to get any work done with regard to code, let alone try to monitor and moderate all the boards in the game and an official forum with many very active threads. We'd need a full time wiz just for that task, and it would be about the most dreadful job I can imagine.

Cultural shifts take time, and are difficult to engineer. I think perhaps the best thing is examples like the one you are setting by sticking to your standards and sharing them, fervently, with others. Bravo. :-)

G.
If you want good RP the best way is to RP well in game and focus on doing your best. Hopefully others will follow. And at least when they meet you they'll try a little harder. Or, if people who dont like RP find themselves in a very RP heavy game, they'll quit. Just as those who enjoy a lot of RP wont chose to play a game with little RP.

When you start complaining and telling people how to play the game, and that they do it "wrong", then YOU are in my opinion doing it wrong.
A good way to make people RP better is definitely NOT to openly attack those who dont (me this time it seems) on forums. That just works completely the other way around. As for wizards enforcing stuff like RP... thats to me a terrible idea. You cant force people to play in a certain way. You can provide a game, have rules if you want (the less rules the better though), but the players will eventually form how the game is played.

If our current players dont want much RP, then we wont have much RP and new players wont RP much either. If lots of people RP, then people who like that will be drawn to the game, and new players will try to RP too. If they like it. Otherwise they will find another game. Currently the hardcore RP'ers are in my opinion in a very clear minority. Does that mean everyone else should change how they play? Or not play?

I get the feeling that you (Gorboth) want the players to play the game the same way that you enjoyed playing the game. Am I right?

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Amorana
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Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Amorana » 27 Nov 2013 19:36

Kiara wrote: You know, I posted info about the event weeks ago. Stating that to collect prizes you needed to post LOGS. Did anyone say anything then? Nope. Did people cheer me on? Yes. Even mages. You KNEW this was gonna happen and dont you think it would have been better to voice your concerns then? I mean it was no secret.
And other mages are now calling it bush league. EDIT: Regarding voicing my concern then... I guess I held hope that you'd make some effort to post logs in an RP fashion. *shrug*
Kiara wrote: And about your little ability Amorana, why do you think Kiara could not have learned about that in game? Is the so completely impossible? For your information, I did NOT know of it from any source except KIARA who gained that info completely ingame with RP. It feels like you have decided to dislike me strongly and grab at anything you can to make me look bad. You make assumptions about things now, stick to facts if you're going to critize. Making up things only makes you look bad. And YOU insulted ME all over the place yesterday for no reason except I disagreed with your opinions. I never attacked your person in any way until you went crazy on me... but you twisted that around too it seems...
Whenever I posted a disagreement regarding your feelings on mages, you systematically made it sound like I'm a crazy person and basically told me my ideas are bad for the game. You want me to live and let live with your ideas? Try the same.

You and I are clearly never going to see eye to eye on what is good RP. I don't think you're showing much of it lately, no matter how you play your kender. There is more to RP than "I'm a kender and I act like a kender." And sending me a message in game that blatantly just asks me to use an ability for you (making the assumption that all Clerics have the same abilities) is a bit off to me. You don't agree. Surprise surprise. We clearly have different standards, and I will always hold my characters to a higher one. *shrug* I'm skipping a good chunk of the below, because it falls into the above.

Kiara wrote:If you say any mention of a log is bad RP, then you're all meaning completely I assume? No logs on guild boards, in mails. No nothing. Anyone ever mentioning it is bad RP and in such high standard RP guilds like Scop and MMs want to be I assume any person who ever shares a log will be punished, and eventually kicked for lack or RP?

Or what are you saying?
You, like Chanele, are openly ignoring the concepts I am posting. So let me post and clarify for you as well:
Amorana wrote:
I think a good start would be to have an official policy. It wouldn't have to be highly enforced (I don't think I'd ever want to see people banned/suspended/killed/otherwise punished beyond "hey, that's not cool, knock it off" for simple infractions). But since everyone keeps saying "where is the rule against sharing logs? what rule says I have to be in character?" etc, I personally feel it would be a good start for there to be something in game that says something as simple as:
There's plenty of ways to share experiences in game, as Berwyn suggested, without sharing a player side log. My suggestion: get creative.

Edit:

Also, regarding this?
Kiara wrote:Focus on your own play instead and try to have fun? You honestly think you can by force, complaints, and insults change the way other people play?
Given that your whole "event" is your unhappiness with how mages play the game, and that the event is sort of systematically designed to screw with them... Isn't that sort of the pot calling the kettle black?
Zhar wrote: "Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."

Kiara
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Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Kiara » 27 Nov 2013 20:16

Amorona: You dont think you could have thought of a better way to encourage RP though? I mean if you have so high RP standards and do it so much better than me, I am sure you could have used your skills to share your opinions in a more friendly way? The end result would most likely have been much better...

In all honesty, no, I never considered logs to be particularly bad RP, as in every guild I ever joined logs have always been a big part on how you record encounters with others. I have assumed it is simply one of those things that are generally accepted. Just like talking on nline or sometimes using the "OOC: I need a smoke" type of things that almost everyone use.

It's pretty clear you and a few do not think so though. I get that. While your RP may be great (I have no idea, Ive never seen it really), I think you could work on how you present your complaints on other people. Rarely will ANYONE respond well to being told they suck at something, how bad they are at something, and how much better you, yourself are.

Perhaps to your surprise I also try to hold RP to an acceptable standard, and does my very best to not use any Skype info or OOC talk or stuff like that. Stuff _I_ think is bad RP. But I dont complain on everyone who does. I accept thats how they want to play, and focus on my own play. If you do get upset on everything that isnt great RP, it must be very tiresome for you to play?:)

Kiara
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Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Kiara » 27 Nov 2013 20:26

Amorana wrote:
Kiara wrote:
Kiara wrote:Focus on your own play instead and try to have fun? You honestly think you can by force, complaints, and insults change the way other people play?
Given that your whole "event" is your unhappiness with how mages play the game, and that the event is sort of systematically designed to screw with them... Isn't that sort of the pot calling the kettle black?
I am not unhappy with how mages play the game? If thats what you think I cant have explained myself very well, or you misunderstood. I respect the mages, I think its a great guild, one of few who has hold on to any type of RP. They have always Rp'ed big and scary and my RP reasons for the event is as you know to stand up to them and show the world we dont have to live in fear of them. Purely in an RP sense. And being a kender, when I watched my good friend Logg get slaughtered I did something very kender-like, I got a crazy idea, and started a mage hunt without thinking of any long term consequences. It has nothing at all to do with that I dislike how the mages play the game. On the contrary. Fine you can think its a poor RP excuse but I think it works.:)

If we step away from Rp, the reason is obviously to give people, both mages and we who have decided to oppose them, something else to do than just walk around and grind. I think thats boring, and the mages I know usually enjoy encounters too. So I figured why not? I think it has worked quite well so far. Suddenly people are hunting resistances, they work together, talk in game, speculate on tactics, coordinate plans. I dont know what the mages do, but I am sure they also have had to mix up their play a bit.

So far the complaints have come from people who are not involved.

But sure, maybe I'll work on the RP part of how I present any information gained... Maybe... we'll see. I did not realise logs would cause so much stir, since logs have been so generally accepted in mails and on guild boards all over the years, and since we even have a forum section named "logs and stories".

What is your opinion on that by the way? Logs on guild boards, and sent to guild councils, to friends by mail, and so on. You never ansered that. Do you think that is bad RP too?

And if you think my answers to your complaints before was insulting, that was never my intention. I got "attacked" from all sorts of directions yesterday and it got worse and worse, so maybe I replied harder than I had to. It is rarely just one side's fault when people fight...

Think we ever can be get past this and be nice against each other again?

Kiara
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Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Kiara » 27 Nov 2013 21:32

I have removed the log since Petros has told me it goes against the idea of this forum section.

May I suggested some type of rule on this be posted as a "sticky" in this section? I thought posting logs of any kind was generally okay in this section. Had there been a clear mention on what is allowed or not I wouldnt have.

Its always better to be super clear about stuff like this. I had no idea whatsoever what the real intention of this section was, it says "logs and stories" so I thought it was fitting to post my log here. (When sparkle auto-forwarding didnt wanna work).

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Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Draugor » 27 Nov 2013 21:44

Well posting loggs is also a way to save time, since if you say or describe something in or out of RP there is always someone, usually from one of the so called "elite guilds" that bitch about there not beeing a logg :P So might aswell post it straight away and be done with it

Celephias
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Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Celephias » 27 Nov 2013 23:14

Draugor wrote:Well posting loggs is also a way to save time, since if you say or describe something in or out of RP there is always someone, usually from one of the so called "elite guilds" that bitch about there not beeing a logg :P So might aswell post it straight away and be done with it
We require a log of all pfights because we know that pissing and moaning usually follows and we will need to defend ourselves in some way. We also want to know if the mage was in the wrong somehow. Obviously, in char, we don't care who complains, but as players we have to cover our bases. We don't post them. Anywhere.

Kiara
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Re: Second, deadly, encounter with Morrison

Post by Kiara » 27 Nov 2013 23:40

Celephias wrote:
Draugor wrote:Well posting loggs is also a way to save time, since if you say or describe something in or out of RP there is always someone, usually from one of the so called "elite guilds" that bitch about there not beeing a logg :P So might aswell post it straight away and be done with it
We require a log of all pfights because we know that pissing and moaning usually follows and we will need to defend ourselves in some way. We also want to know if the mage was in the wrong somehow. Obviously, in char, we don't care who complains, but as players we have to cover our bases. We don't post them. Anywhere.
But is _posting_ a log worse RP than sharing them within the guild? I mean you still break your RP just as much? Even though you do it only with your guild friends. I obviously posted the logs for the very same reasons. To be able to defend my claims about the abilities I had found out. Sure I could have described them, but people would just ask me for logs anyway. Thats how it works. The only difference is I posted logs for all to see, but from an RP perspective I dont think its any better to just do it infront of a few people. Its still breaking character obviously.

Cant we just accept that logs are part of the game, and needed to provide records of events, as proof. Because thats what they are. I try to keep my own style of play RP-ish, but if I have to send a log, well then thats out of character. Just as it is when you do it. Or anyone else.

Logs ARE part of the game. They will always be. If we want more "immersion" I think perhaps it needs to be done by code. Like some magical device that can record memories or whatever. Well I dont know, but there's always ways to do stuff like that if you really want more immersion. Because we wont get past logs. We need them. Thats how it is.

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