Research discussions

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Research discussions

Post by Booger » 17 Sep 2011 01:33

I guess most of you know that when I examine something I try to go into detail. More details than most of you care about, maybe? But to each his own - I enjoy it. I prefer to explore and test things myself, but often you need someone to bounce your ideas towards, to get some brainstorming that can bring up new ideas and perspectives.
So I was thinking of starting a new thread, for questions where the answers are a bit harder to come by than just reading the help files.
Maybe someone knows the answer straight out? Or thinks he knows it but hasn't been able to prove it? Maybe there are different ideas on what is correct?

To give some examples of what I'm talking about:
1. What's the use in non-alcoholic drinks? They don't make you regain mana, hp or moves faster. Is there any use for them at all?
2. Herbs have two properties that can be seen when given to a herbalist - recognizability and rarity. Recognizability affects whether you recognize the herb or not (depending on your herblore skill). And also affects whether you can search specifically for that herb. What does rarity affect?
3. To gain a progress level you need a certain amount of xp. As you grow, the xp needed for a progress level increases, but it changes very smoothly (I think). But getting one mini-step on the mortal level scale eg from "fairly close to [advancing] to <level>" to "very close to [advancing] to <level>) seems very random. I needed 28 progress levels for one mini-mortal-step. To get to the next mini-mortal-step I only needed 16 progress levels. Why? (I'm guessing mortal levels depends on your stats and not on the xp gained).
4. What good is the option "unarmed on/off"? When should you use it? Different people have different answers to this.
5. How can you compare the healing/managiving properties between herbs, to see how good different herbs are?
6. Are there some measurable effects of dex, wis & dis?

I would like this to be mortal-knowledge only (no "I checked the code and this is how it works: ...", please), except for situations like code bugs, or incorrect help files.
But the things we uncover... maybe considered wizinfo even if found out by mortal means?
So would something like this be embraced or hated? If accepted, where should it be placed? Here? Should I use one topic for each question, or keep all in one thread? Bring up one question at a time or all at once?


Re: Research discussions

Post by Arcon » 17 Sep 2011 09:34

I have no proof of any of this, I am just guessing.

1. Non-alcoholic drinks I THINK should make you less tired/ rest faster. Water I thought helped mana regeneration. You can try to go to the river in ME south of Bree without drinking anything and start walking towards MT. Count the rooms you managed to walk and how long time it takes you to rest. Go back and non-alcoholics drink of your choice until you are filled and do it again and compare. Same with mana regeneration, spend it all and see how long time it take with or without water.

2. Rarity I GUESS is how common it is, there are a lot more of some herbs then others. Choose two herbs that grow on the Abanasinian plains with different raritys and search for both compare the result and then do it again for two more armas.

3. No idea.

4. Unarmed on/off means that you use unarmed attacks as well, if you have two attacks with a weapon but four with unarmed you might just use one with the weapon and two with unarmed. This is useful if you have high unarmed skill and wear certain boots. Otherwise put unarmed off. (Again no proff just guessing and I have no idea of the number of attacks)

5. Compare mana herbs, take a spell (strength) and cast it until you waste all your mana and cant cast it no more, start eating herbs and see how many you need to be filled. Repeat and compare results. (not very acurate but still. Use the same spell and don't grow nor change food or water, I would recommend to be filled on both and only eat and drink small things BETWEEN experiments.)

6. No idea how to measure any of them.

As I said, I am just guessing here.
Last edited by Arcon on 17 Sep 2011 12:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Research discussions

Post by Makfly » 17 Sep 2011 10:07

1. Not being thirsty improves mana-regen. So non-alcoholic drinks help you regen mana faster without being drunk. I also always thought your drunkeness-level decreased your mana regain, so those two cancel each other out.
As far as I know drinking does nothing to help fatigue, but food does.

2. Rarity I presume determines the amount of herbs one can find in a location?
Some herbs you can only find 1 of in a location, where others you can usually find 3 of.

3. Something that might screw up your meassurement is that you could have stopped playing while you were just 5% into your current level increase - Just like if you kill 1 mob and enter the first increase bracket, and then quit. But maybe you're right about it being different number of increases along the mortal level curve.

4. Use your fists/feet alongside your normal attacks. I think it's something you always turn off, unless you happen to be a super unarmed fighter who for some reason fights with a weapon (for a weapon-effect for instance)

5. Same as Arcon described I guess.

6. Well, DIS is easy to test. Go find someone you can't attack because you're too scared to, then dual-wield green steel longswords and try again. DEX & WIS is harder I guess. I think general consensus was that DEX was king in combat before, because it determined who easy you hit someone and how easy you avoided getting hit. Now I think STR is more useful in that regards. WIS helps mana regen rate, I thought?

Because the game is set up with no numbers displayed to the players, it's really difficult to ever get a clear, certain answer to many things. I guess that's also a reason why Wiz-info have been so sought after through-out the years.
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist


Re: Research discussions

Post by Greneth » 17 Sep 2011 22:03

1. I had always thought that thirst improved your ability to do anything that took away from your fatigue levels as well as improved your mana regen. This would leave your hp regen at its base level and if you consume alcohol that improves your hp regen but lowers your mana regen. There are also a few drinks (Not sure if they have been removed or not as I havent been able to find them) that would increase the regen more then other drinks.

2. I had always thought that rarity had a role in how expensive a herb was, good test might be to find 2 herbs that a herbalist does not own or just buy them out and resell them back to him/her and test it with the different rarities/same rarity.

3. Believe it is based off stats, while not perfect that stat program has a good way of explaining it, or just find Hektor he just loves explaining stats for hours on end ;-)

4. The way I had always understood this was each player has a set amount of base attacks based on dex and perhaps race? Each attack with a weapon takes a certain amount based on its attack speed. If unarmed combat is on you will get extra hits in with unarmed but lose a few attacks with your weapon. So its rarely ever used unless your basing yourself on unarmed combat, only ones I can really see using this feature is maybe an Ogre or Merc with some odd combo.. and of course the DO.

5. Get an extremely small gnome, that should allow you to test the properties of the smaller herbs and how many levels they give. If you can somehow work out each races base HP once they enter the game and put that into a number form it might be possible to get extremely close to finding out how much each herb actually heals.

6. If your able to.. try and get in contact with Marc/Ilrahil I believe he knew how to measure each stat.

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Re: Research discussions

Post by Zar » 21 Sep 2011 19:59

4. Unarmed should be used by monks while wielding weapons. I didn't test it lately, but years ago it worked good with Monk/AA combination.
6. As far as I know WIS and INT are equally important for people memory capacity. I think 1 person for 1 int + 1 wis.

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Re: Research discussions

Post by Booger » 22 Sep 2011 00:58

Ok, it seems as if the resistance isn't too big. So let's start slowly, shall we, and take one thing at a time?

Non-alcoholic beverages:

For simplicity I've used just water. If someone has some idea that different kinds of drinks have different effects, then bring it up and we can discuss it.

And since we're testing moves and mana, it might be good to know that you regain moves once every minute.
For movement, I've been walking back and forth just outside the Sparkle church, since it has "normal" movement cost. And made sure to be fairly weighed down (carry too little and you can walk forever, carry too much and you get tired twice as fast).

With my constitution, and being fully stuffed, I can move 124 steps before being too tired to move. After a minute I can move another 48 steps.
Also being fully soaked ("barely drink more"), I can move 124 steps before being too tired to move. After a minute I can move another 48 steps.
And if I am thirsty and out of moves, drinking myself to fully soaked gives me no new moves.

Putting on and removing amulet of diminution brings me to "mentally worn down" and "drink quite a lot more".
Once I got to "mentally indisposed", I drank myself to "barely drink more" and checked the time to get to "bad shape": 12 minutes 40 seconds.
Repeated, but without drinking any water: 12 minutes 40 seconds.
So being soaked does not increase mana regen, and the act of drinking does not make any difference either.

Anyone have any other ideas for any uses of being soaked? Or have done any testing that proves otherwise? Or any comments on the tests described here, on how they might fail to show the truth?

On a side note: Yes, intoxication does affect your mana regeneration in a bad way, but only if you reach a certain drunkenness. You have to be "wasted" before your mental regeneration actually slows down.

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Re: Research discussions

Post by Kitriana » 22 Sep 2011 01:40

Some guilds have restrictions against drinking any alcoholic beverage... so for those its either exhaust of thirst or drink water.
If something I wrote sounds confusing ... assume you misunderstood it.

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Re: Research discussions

Post by Booger » 22 Sep 2011 08:22

Ok. So members of those guilds can't get intoxicated to heal faster. But apart from that I see no difference, since being soaked doesn't seem to do anything.

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Re: Research discussions

Post by Zingil » 22 Sep 2011 10:30

Being soaked did help against bleeding to death when suffering from the bleeding wound inflicted by the Goblin Lord. But it has been a while since he dealt any such wounds.

-Zingil's player

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Re: Research discussions

Post by Booger » 22 Sep 2011 13:52

Interesting... Care to elaborate?
How did it help? And how do you know it was the soak that helped?

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