Two things other games have that we don't

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Mortis

Two things other games have that we don't

Post by Mortis » 13 Feb 2015 03:03

If you check out any graphic MMOs, they all have an official forum and fan sites. We have a forum, but there are two things on fan sites that we don't have:

1) A leveling guide - Other games have fans who have written a guide to get to levels x, y, and z by doing the following quests in the following order, getting combat xp at this point, doing this, doing that until goal levels are achieved.

2) Quest guides - Other games have fans who have written and published guides with directions, maps, and screenshots on how to solve quests every step of the way. I never played a single one where that didn't come in handy every session, and it was a ton of fun.

The administration is probably never going to take this on, but neither do the folks who run today's MMOs typically. With quest guides being shareable now, I imagine the above two things are entirely possible for a fan who wanted to share what they know about Genesis, help newbies in the process, and maybe even advertise for his guild or faction.

Maybe we need a wiki site? Any volunteers to get it going?

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Mersereau
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Re: Two things other games have that we don't

Post by Mersereau » 13 Feb 2015 03:17

MMOs do sell leveling and quest guides, usually through Prima Games or Brady Games. Most smart people don't buy those because the ones on the internet are usually better and cheaper.
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Cherek
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Re: Two things other games have that we don't

Post by Cherek » 13 Feb 2015 03:25

Mortis wrote:If you check out any graphic MMOs, they all have an official forum and fan sites. We have a forum, but there are two things on fan sites that we don't have:

1) A leveling guide - Other games have fans who have written a guide to get to levels x, y, and z by doing the following quests in the following order, getting combat xp at this point, doing this, doing that until goal levels are achieved.

2) Quest guides - Other games have fans who have written and published guides with directions, maps, and screenshots on how to solve quests every step of the way. I never played a single one where that didn't come in handy every session, and it was a ton of fun.

The administration is probably never going to take this on, but neither do the folks who run today's MMOs typically. With quest guides being shareable now, I imagine the above two things are entirely possible for a fan who wanted to share what they know about Genesis, help newbies in the process, and maybe even advertise for his guild or faction.

Maybe we need a wiki site? Any volunteers to get it going?
We do have the quest orbs online wiki, that Ragni (I think?) started. There's no reason it couldnt be expanded to contain all sorts of guides, or info about NPCs, weapons, etc. Someone simply has to do it.:)

http://genesisquests.pbworks.com/w/page ... 20quite%29

There's a link from of official page to it as well.

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Alisa
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Re: Two things other games have that we don't

Post by Alisa » 13 Feb 2015 12:06

Mortis wrote:If you check out any graphic MMOs, they all have an official forum and fan sites. We have a forum, but there are two things on fan sites that we don't have:
Please don't compare Genesis directly to a Graphic MMO.

I think we should not do exactly like all the other games. How does the "publication" of quest solutions go in hand with the other thread about how bad it is that everyone is just grinding for Myth.

What do you get from quests in those games. XP and some nice items. Nothing greater than what you can find in random drops. Genesis quests have another impact on the game.

I am all for enhancing the quest hints, and the Pbworks homepage... Make an official link from here to it, include a link in the login or something like that.

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Re: Two things other games have that we don't

Post by Ragni » 13 Feb 2015 14:19

The PBworks page has great potential for adding extra information beyond the quest hints. There is already information various subjects such as imbuements, herbs, resistance items. It's really only limited by how much effort people are prepared to put into it. I got so far as creating a page of every quest and adding the basic quest orb information to it. They for many of the quests I've expanded on the quest orb information to make an expanded hint which in my opinion gave just enough extra quest information to make the quest doable without spoiling it.
I kind of ran out of steam part way through this process and never finished things but I think it could easily be done especially now that several people have contacted me about getting access to the site and I have given them all editor access. I think if we split the remaining work on a realm by realm basis then we could pretty easily complete all the quest orbs and then move on to adding extra information to the site for example a page per guild, a expanded newbie guide.

Ragni

Mortis

Re: Two things other games have that we don't

Post by Mortis » 13 Feb 2015 14:47

Alisa wrote:
Mortis wrote:If you check out any graphic MMOs, they all have an official forum and fan sites. We have a forum, but there are two things on fan sites that we don't have:
Please don't compare Genesis directly to a Graphic MMO.

I think we should not do exactly like all the other games. How does the "publication" of quest solutions go in hand with the other thread about how bad it is that everyone is just grinding for Myth.

What do you get from quests in those games. XP and some nice items. Nothing greater than what you can find in random drops. Genesis quests have another impact on the game.

I am all for enhancing the quest hints, and the Pbworks homepage... Make an official link from here to it, include a link in the login or something like that.
Why not compare Genesis to its competition? That's how you get better. These are games many here play in addition to Genesis.

When I played Asheron's Call, one of my favorite things about it was being able to go to the wiki site, look up a quest we hadn't done (or the new monthly quest that had come out THAT day), and go do it with my friends using the walkthrough. That was a blast, and we never would have solved those quests or even found them without the site.

If I were new and coming here, those are the two things I'd pull up and start using to keep me coming back: 1) Leveling guide, and 2) Quest guide

It's perfectly fine to discuss this and to compare it to other successful, modern games.

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Re: Two things other games have that we don't

Post by Snowrose » 13 Feb 2015 17:24

well we have an official forum. we have varios fansites including quests orbs and map pages.
quest orbs is a wiki which is typically the place where leveling guides are... the main page has links to it and various other pages that can help. we also have a face book group.

so unless your trying to say two things we dont have graphics and a monthly fee I think genesis is doing just fine.
I
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Mortis

Re: Two things other games have that we don't

Post by Mortis » 14 Feb 2015 14:59

1) Quest leveling guide - Here's an example from http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/Player_Guides

http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/User:Taom ... ling_Guide

Here's an excerpt:

Levels 1-16
Your initial levels in this game will go by very quickly. You'll be level 5 upon leaving the Training Academy and should immediately speak to...


2) Quest guide - Here's an example from http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Quests

http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/Chasing_Oswald

Here's an excerpt:

Part 1: Lugian Ice Tunnels
After you have handed the jaw to the huntsman, he will send you to the Lugian Ice Tunnels at 93.3N, 50.1W.
Route: Silyun to Plains of Ruin portal at 87.7N 69.7W.
From the drop in Lugian Ice Tunnels, stick right until you come to a squarish room with tunnels leading off to the north and to the south.
Go south and you'll come to a large room that has a corpse in an alcove on the south wall. Loot the Note to Alvirre off the Corpse and return it to the Huntsman of Silyun (If you took the Plains of Ruin portal use portal recall and take the Silyun portal at 90,6N 51.0W - right infront of you).



This format is a straight up step by step walk through of leveling suggestions and questing. This kind of thing kept me playing AC instead of Gen for a long stretch of years. Anytime my group wanted to do something fun other than pk'ing, we'd pick a quest off the fansite and run it. The list is huge, and the instructions are easy to follow.

If players may now choose to use quest solutions, why not give all of them, new ones included, the option? That's not going to be done by the administration but by fans just like other games - if anyone is interested that is.

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Re: Two things other games have that we don't

Post by Alisa » 14 Feb 2015 15:22

Mortis, i do see your points.

The example you post is a bit more revealing than i would think ok, but i can see the points in having it public.
But then again, when i ask for help its usually "Can you please tell me if i fuck the syntax up, or if i'm just on wrong track".

Helpfiles like you quote would help me in the same way, as asking other players.
And since it's legal to ask, is it also legal to write down?

I must say, you got my vote now. I can't find any good arguments against you, so i'd better join you :-)

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Cherek
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Re: Two things other games have that we don't

Post by Cherek » 14 Feb 2015 16:12

I have absolutely nothing against "fan sites" at all, we link to the good ones we have from the official page, which currently is the Quest Orb Wiki and the Crossbearer maps.

I sure wont stop you. And I would love to have more information for new players on the official site as well, but it's a big job so it really comes down to someone wanting to do it. When I designed the new page I wanted to have a nice look that feels modern and makes players feel "this looks interesting". In order to pull it off alone I also decided to keep the the information to a minimum, but there's much more we could have there of course. However with the official page we have to think about not drowning people in info as well, and that information there must be up to date, and must fit the overall design and style. With more information there is also much more to update. So sometimes player created sites and wikis are perhaps preferable, as people will be much more understanding if not everything is up to date, and we dont have to worry as much about things like design, copyright of graphics used, etc.

So... I say do it. If it turns out really good maybe there are parts we could use on the official page and/or in the game as well.

If I did a site with quest solutions though I would not copy paste the exact directions, but more in the style of "Go here, do this, then go here and..." etc. But that's me. I think I had preferred that type of guide instead of the doc I got when I started playing. I "felt" like cheating (and was back in the time). If there had been a better type of solution than the exact directions type, I think I would have enjoyed that more. That type of guide would also have less need to be updated, as it would be more general. How many have not been confused by their quest doc because it's not up to date, and they just followed directions and really have no clue where they are and what they're doing?:)

I think from a "fun" perspective it would better to write more general (but detailed if you want) tips without exact directions, and it would be just as helpful, but more fun. Especially if you actually included something about the story of the quest and what the goal is. Instead of just w,w,w,w,wield stick,poke beehive,e,e,e etc... But that's just me. I obviously cant control YOUR fansite.:)

A well written guide for quests and/or for newbies etc I would love to promote from the page or perhaps inside the game too. Just adding the link to the quest doc on the main page... nah, I think we could do it in a better way. If you wanna do that you'll have to promote it on your own.:)

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