Complaints about Block

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Ilrahil

Re: Complaints about Block

Post by Ilrahil » 17 Mar 2010 01:52

However contrary to what is believed. I have fallen prey to two knights killing me at least 3-4 times. And their block gets stronger with an extra knight, and lasts for a good 35-40 seconds.

I have been in a team with 2-3 ogres, and have seen their block last for 25-30 seconds maximum.

Also Ogres cannot leave the room if they stomp in it. Bale found that out the hard way against a group of Calians.

Lindros

Re: Complaints about Block

Post by Lindros » 17 Mar 2010 02:25

Rhynox wrote:
Windemere wrote:I think your points on blocking being seen as an aggressive posture is fantastic and right on the mark. If you try to stop someone from leaving a room obviously you are being aggressive towards them and combat should be initiated.
A couple of things: a knight must enter combat to use their block. Also, contrary to ogre's block, the knights' block is not immediate, there is a delay between the order and the character actually blocking. So, they cannot block someone who is bouncing since they need to enter combat and by the time the block resolves the bouncer is already out of the room.

Since when does a Knight have to initiate combat? From my experience since their recode, that is not the case. I have been blocked by knights whom
I have not been in combat with, so if this has indeed changed it has done so in the last couple of months.


re: Tarax,

you misunderstood me, I do not think Ogres should have stomp+block,
my case was that if the spellcasting guilds with crowd control spells
are given block, then so should ogres. Why should these spellcasting guilds
get to have several crowd control options and everyone else limited to just
one? Especially considering some of these "crowd control" spells are much
more powerful than block is...


Ogrestomp and block is not the same thing, stomp blocks everyone from leaving
including the ogre, block only hinders 1 person from leaving, its an agressive
act, while ogres stomping is not really "agressive" if you ask me.


Block used to require combat to be initiated for it to work, this way people
setting up block traps at piers and such had a harder time getting of both the
attack + block exit commands when someone entered. As block is currently, all you
need is a block exit trigger and you can more or less get a certain kill if you
carry enough firepower.



Ogre "block" is more balanced that "knight" block is, ogres stomp is effective
much shorter period of time and does not stack as "knight" block does.
3 ogres stomp and its max 25 seconds, 3 knights block and all of a sudden
we are talking 30-60seconds most likely, thats up x2 as long, and 30secs
extra in a playerfight is in most cases the diffrence between escaping wounded
and having tea with Lars.


Personally I'd much rather have knight block than ogre stomp, there's no question about it,
Its much more versatile and prevents people from leaving for a much longer period
of time, in other words the chances of a kill increases big time.


I do think block should count as a special ability, in other words spellcasting
while blocking should not be possible(Just like the newly recoded guilds that has
spellcasting cannot cast spells+execute a special attack at once).




Tarax, when did you see an ogre start an earthquake and leave? Cause that was
obviously a bug, cause I have attempted it quite a few times and failed every single
time.
Last edited by Lindros on 17 Mar 2010 18:53, edited 1 time in total.

Amberlee
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Re: Complaints about Block

Post by Amberlee » 17 Mar 2010 03:16

I kinda think the ogre stomp is a much better solution for blocking truth be told.
Since it blocks everyone including those who use it.
So it can easily backfire :P
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If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

Rhynox
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Re: Complaints about Block

Post by Rhynox » 17 Mar 2010 03:27

Lindros wrote:Since when does a Knight have to initiate combat? From my experience since their recode, that is not the case. I have been blocked by knights whom
I have not been in combat with, so if this has indeed changed it has done so in the last couple of months.
As far as I know, they must enter combat. However, I am no knight.

Lindros

Re: Complaints about Block

Post by Lindros » 17 Mar 2010 03:40

amberlee wrote:I kinda think the ogre stomp is a much better solution for blocking truth be told.
Since it blocks everyone including those who use it.
So it can easily backfire :P

Aye, it has a drawback.

But perhaps something similar could be added to block?

Say, if you block someone you cannot leave yourself, until the block is broken through.
That would make people a bit more hesitant before throwing up blocks to left and right,
if they knew that as long as they are attempting to block someone, they cannot themself
leave the room.

Amberlee
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Re: Complaints about Block

Post by Amberlee » 17 Mar 2010 03:49

I agree Lindros.
Should be like that.. But then again i doubt knights would want that.. ;)
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If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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petros
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Re: Complaints about Block

Post by petros » 17 Mar 2010 04:28

I just love all the arguments about block even before it's even available. Makes you wonder a bit what the point really is. Let's think through some of these issues. People want fairness, right? Let me ask a few questions about fairness.

1. Is it fair that people who are stronger can just push someone who's weaker around? Some say yes because they worked for their strength. We are introducing block so that people who are weaker have a say about it too.
2. Is it fair that people who can't attack someone can't block? Again, going back to the small person versus big. How can five adventurers think to take on a big bad myth if they can't even attack? How can someone who is blinded (by spell or darkness) block? Sure, you can make an argument that it's not realistic, but the question is, is it fair?

There are plenty of ways to break the kind of block that is being discussed previously in this thread that aim to make it more "fair" or "realistic". The reality is that block is being introduced into the game as an equalizer for PvP. The arguments against the kind of block that is an equalizer? Well, it makes people who don't like to be equal to everyone else, equal.

Ilrahil

Re: Complaints about Block

Post by Ilrahil » 17 Mar 2010 04:45

Not sure who your pointing fingers at Petros.

Most of the conversation has been geared toward assumptions of what the new block might be, and the hopes that it will not be a replica of Knight's block which in popular opinion has quite a few flaws.

Doesn't sound like anyone's knocking on global block, instead just wondering what its going to be like, and sharing concerns they have with it.

I have been waiting for this for over 2 years, however I am still apprehensive if it is a duplicate of the knights, and will be interested to hear what people have to say about it when its released.

Amberlee
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Re: Complaints about Block

Post by Amberlee » 17 Mar 2010 05:07

Personally i am both for and against global block.
I can easily see it working like Petros wants.
BUT
The problem is i can easily see it making life unbearable for the smaller players in guilds at war.


Here is a thought.
Is it at all wise to give a loose cannon another tool to trap anyone they felt like killing?

When it comes to block i would much rather introduce equipment that can block exits.
Like introduce the weapon called Man Catcher to the donut.
Forcing one person just to hold the other one in the room.. So you cant effectively block a room on your own.. But you need a friend focusing 100% on that and not doing any damage.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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Re: Complaints about Block

Post by Sharn » 17 Mar 2010 09:28

Lindros wrote:Personally I'd much rather than knight block than ogre stomp, there's no question about it
I SO wish you could get what you ask :D

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