Death - Frustrating or not? Why?

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Mersereau
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Death - Frustrating or not? Why?

Post by Mersereau » 17 Mar 2010 20:41

gorboth wrote:We wizards, and I especially, have not liked this at all. We, frankly, want to see death happen a lot more than it does. We want to see players grow used to the experience, have the culture shift, and have death again be a frequent, anticipated, and accepted aspect of play for just about everyone.
Death is a very frustrating ordeal. Frankly I do not play Genesis to be frustrated. Perhaps my days among this community are numbered if the immortals think fun is having your day ruined.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."
-Mel Brooks

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petros
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Re: Complaints about Block

Post by petros » 17 Mar 2010 20:48

Mersereau wrote:
gorboth wrote:We wizards, and I especially, have not liked this at all. We, frankly, want to see death happen a lot more than it does. We want to see players grow used to the experience, have the culture shift, and have death again be a frequent, anticipated, and accepted aspect of play for just about everyone.
Death is a very frustrating ordeal. Frankly I do not play Genesis to be frustrated. Perhaps my days among this community are numbered if the immortals think fun is having your day ruined.
What is frustrating about it? With timed recovery, will the frustration be limited to the time to recover? Or is there something else?

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Re: Complaints about Block

Post by Rhynox » 17 Mar 2010 20:57

Death should be fun, that is the issue. In WoW it is fun because growth is capped and you don't lose experience when you die. I don't mind dying five or six times per year, the issue is that, ironically, someone who doesn't login during the year will be bigger than Rhynox even though I had played all that year long. That is the problem, people can't get into their head that they will continue to be smaller than Dionysos even if they play all year long and Dionysos hasn't played in a couple of years. I understand it can be frustrating.

You know, implement a reward system: once you reach myth, you can't lose experience anymore. Then you will start seeing pfights everywhere between the big ones (who are usually the most cowards).

Creed

Re: Complaints about Block

Post by Creed » 17 Mar 2010 21:04

Well..

Its frustrating because now, with the recovery system as it is, everyone will more or less be kept in the size they have right now.

If we all are to expect to be killed much more frequently, then none of us will have much chance to get up to size with the biggest of the players.

I think there should be a maximum size, for where the recovery worked up to.
That way you would still have the chance to become bigger, you would just have to work harder for it.
Like.. no matter how big you are now, you no longer have any option of getting any recovery over myth size.

That would mean that the myths, with frequent deaths, would be pulled down below myth, to be more sized like most of the game, and somehow level the field of players.
Over time, at least.

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Re: Death - Frustrating or not? Why?

Post by Rhynox » 17 Mar 2010 21:13

The problem is that anyone hitting myth will stop playing. Why continue risking deaths if you won't be able to recover?

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Re: Death - Frustrating or not? Why?

Post by Sharn » 17 Mar 2010 21:38

Mersereau wrote:
gorboth wrote:We wizards, and I especially, have not liked this at all. We, frankly, want to see death happen a lot more than it does. We want to see players grow used to the experience, have the culture shift, and have death again be a frequent, anticipated, and accepted aspect of play for just about everyone.
Death is a very frustrating ordeal. Frankly I do not play Genesis to be frustrated. Perhaps my days among this community are numbered if the immortals think fun is having your day ruined.
My thoughts exactly. I know that now with recovery it is just a month.
And yes I am aware that some people with their extreme myth UBER+ stats are able to recover in a week, but I am not.
I do not understand why would loosing a month would be fun.
I am ready to accept death from time to time, but if it is going to be frequent it wont be fun.

If I would like self-flagellation I would just do it. I do not need genesis for it.

So if you want "death again be a frequent, anticipated, and accepted aspect of play for just about everyone"
you have to come out with something that will make death attractive.

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petros
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Re: Death - Frustrating or not? Why?

Post by petros » 17 Mar 2010 21:57

sharn wrote:If I would like self-flagellation I would just do it. I do not need genesis for it.

So if you want "death again be a frequent, anticipated, and accepted aspect of play for just about everyone"
you have to come out with something that will make death attractive.
So there are two bodies of thought. Death should be meaningful, because it's what makes Genesis distinctive, and death should not be painful because it makes my time feel wasted.

In my opinion, the timed recovery is the best of both worlds. Someone suffers a temporary consequence, but there are no long term effects. It's what makes the solution so attractive. While the game is doing the grinding for you (essentially), you can take a break and engage in other activities like RP, herbing, etc. I feel that by making death a temporary and non-permanent pain point, it will also encourage roleplay.

Am I way off base here? Thoughts?

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Re: Death - Frustrating or not? Why?

Post by Rhynox » 17 Mar 2010 22:03

I just told Gorboth that, at one point, he will have to choose to focus on pkilling or peaceful. Half-baked solutions aren't pleasing either side. And I think in the end the pfighting side will win because it is much easier to let everyone kill each other than to find a way to make people die without losing experience.

Creed

Re: Death - Frustrating or not? Why?

Post by Creed » 17 Mar 2010 23:09

And the pfighting side would win, simply because they can pull pfighting down upon others, and not the other way around.

If im going to die once every month, because pfights are being so encouraged everywhere. Then I know where I will not spend my time in the future.

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Mersereau
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Re: Complaints about Block

Post by Mersereau » 18 Mar 2010 02:18

petros wrote: What is frustrating about it? With timed recovery, will the frustration be limited to the time to recover? Or is there something else?
It was stated in another thread this will not be implemented with block. While it's a very good idea, it makes very little sense to implement a new death system without a new death recovery system. It was stated it took 3 years to re-implement block. That means roughly we may have to wait until 2013 for this.

Block will get abused and over used. I've seen decisions like this backfire too many times on Genesis. More players will leave. As it is logging on to find 8 people active isn't very appealing. It will be past the time for recriminations by that point.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."
-Mel Brooks

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