Discussion on Botting (Split from Just Curious thread)

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Budwise
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Re: Discussion on Botting (Split from Just Curious thread)

Post by Budwise » 16 Jul 2010 23:19

I get along okay without anything but my trusty quicktyper.
Means you have to play instead of just having your client fire off commands.
Although grinding can be a bit boring.

Gorboths way of dealing with roboplayers seems to work. Quick too.

Maizara

Re: Discussion on Botting (Split from Just Curious thread)

Post by Maizara » 17 Jul 2010 00:12

After mailing the wizards about a botter I was told that they can bot and script all they want as long as they are behind the computer. (From Gorboths Mouth Himself)

So in other words as long as someone has zmud/cmud and uses the ding sound triggers they can sit and watch tv, play other games ect and just have to wait for the ding of a Immo getting their attention.

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Cherek
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Re: Discussion on Botting (Split from Just Curious thread)

Post by Cherek » 17 Jul 2010 01:01

Here's my take on it... and Ive shared it a few times before, so Ill try to be brief. Not that I know how to be brief.. but still..:)

Irk and his team of drones is pretty legendary botters. Its to me amazing they can still do it considering the botting policy. They should all be deleted, deleted and deleted according to the policy, why they arent is a mystery since I havent met anyone who doesnt know about it. Surely wizards must know and let it happen? Or they actually dont know?

Either way, I dont think the solution is hunting and punishing botters. I never agreed with this policy.

We gotta look at a bigger picture? Why does people bot? Well they wanna get huge without having to boringly grind. Cant blame them. Grinding is BORING for the most part.

Wanna stop botting I see three solutions to it.

1. Provide a way to gain XP that requires you to be alert and active that is MORE rewarding than botting. Not easy though, but it would be fun if it was ever made. And its not really that hard if you're a little creative. I am sure our wizards are competent enough to pull it off should they have the time/priority to do it.

2. Cap stats. Cap stats at say hero or titan. Then anyone can reach it without enormous amounts of grinding. Sure, you can still bot your way there, but it wont cause so much grief amongst others since they dont gain a huge advantage anyway. And once you are titan/hero or whatever the cap is botting will be useless... a cap would truly change the game fundamentally though and I doubt we'll see it. I'd like it though.

3. Finally, I think WE the players could put an end to botting as well. By simply saying no to botters. Kill them. Dont team with them. Spit on them. Despise them. Mock them. Hate them. Dont let them into your guild. Kick them out of your guild. If botters get a truly bad reputation they cant get into guilds or even get a team I am sure most will stop.

But then again... it sucks to be forced to actually sit at your computer when killing countless of Gont guards or Mithas trolls too... It just isnt fun. so I really dont blame the botters. And who doesnt join the Irk team now and then? Its easy XP and I bet most player will jump at it.

Thats my suggestions anyway. Hunting and deleting players just because they dont think the game is fun enough wont do much good imho...

Ilrahil

Re: Discussion on Botting (Split from Just Curious thread)

Post by Ilrahil » 17 Jul 2010 01:29

For the love of god just stop suggesting stat caps. Another thread I'll remove myself from because of the idea.

Creed

Re: Discussion on Botting (Split from Just Curious thread)

Post by Creed » 17 Jul 2010 01:29

So.. instead of getting rid of those who thinks the game is boring, you suggest that we let them stay to "corrupt" the rest of the game?

Eventually everyone will be running around as bots, talking on msn or whatever, gaining their huge stats..
And for what reason? Do you go into town bragging about how much of a nerd you are?

I think that I have played gen for all in all around 6-700 days, all chars included.. and in that time I have been doing something else also, for perhaps 1 day, all in all.

I don't understand why Gorboth thinks scripting is fine, as long as you are sitting at your computer. We have enough NPC's in the game.. I don't need more of them, and certainly not any who ruin my fun, attack me or kill the things I had hoped to kill. Or any who takes the EQ I felt like using, and so on..

But, Im not the one to decide. Not on that matter at least. But then I can decide if I want to spend my time in a game which is filled with more or less living NPC's.

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Cherek
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Re: Discussion on Botting (Split from Just Curious thread)

Post by Cherek » 17 Jul 2010 01:52

Creed: I dislike botters too. However I can still _understand_ why they do it. All I am saying is a better solution might be to look into what makes people wanna bot... We did have less botters before... is that because people didnt know how to script, or because the game simply was more fun then? I dont know, but I think there are more ways than one to counteract cheating.

However I agree, if we now have this policy (which I dont really like), but if we are to have it we should atleast follow it. Now we have super-hard policy on botters, but none to enforce it. Thats makes it even more annoying for the nonbotters.

Ilrahil: So dramatic...:) It most likely wont happen anyway. And there are tons of arguments both for and against a statcap. But lets keep that in another thread, I merely suggested it as one way of making botting less of a issue, which it would be.

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petros
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Re: Discussion on Botting (Split from Just Curious thread)

Post by petros » 17 Jul 2010 06:32

All reported combat botters are investigated immediately to determine whether they are attentive to their screens. So if you suspect some, just report them. Everyone who fails to show themselves to be responsive in a reasonable amount of time are killed per the <help botting> policy. If you reported a botter, and they were not killed, then it likely means that they ignored you, but did not ignore the wizzes when they came down. What that means, I'll let you decide. And yes, I know people have alarms for certain triggers and not others. Our tests for botters adapts over time to account for this.

I agree with many of the sentiments expressed in this thread. Botters are bad for the game, because their behavior demoralizes people who want to enjoy the game normally. In order for others to "keep up with the Jones" or this case, the botters, some may feel they need to bot as well. It thus becomes a vicious cycle. This is not what we want.

I've said this before to folks in the game and I'll say it here in this thread. If you are going to be inattentive in a team, go to a safe room, or go LD. Yes, I know if you are in combat, even if you LD, your body stays in the game for a short amount of time. That means if you need to be attentive and go LD, your team needs to watch out for you while you are in the "LD, but not LD" stage. If your team is unwilling to do this for you, they're perhaps not deserving of the extra xp you're bringing in by being a part of their team.

Rhynox
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Re: Discussion on Botting (Split from Just Curious thread)

Post by Rhynox » 17 Jul 2010 16:47

I believe it would be more just if a bot zapped by a wizard would not obtain the benefit of the fast death recovery. In other words, make it straight experience loss instead of death. Otherwise they will be back to their old size after a few hours of more botting.

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Alorrana
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Re: Discussion on Botting (Split from Just Curious thread)

Post by Alorrana » 17 Jul 2010 18:32

**
Last edited by Alorrana on 31 Aug 2010 10:44, edited 1 time in total.
I’m not a complete idiot. Some pieces are missing.

fulgrim
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Re: Discussion on Botting (Split from Just Curious thread)

Post by fulgrim » 17 Jul 2010 18:39

I don't find it strange at all that people bot. If a player feels that growing his character is very important, he will sooner or later reach the point when grinding general xp becomes mind-numbingly boring... Even if he is well motivated by competition etc.
I've already begun to feel that a little bit with my char. Grinding against monsters alone (probably the most effective way at my level) herbing and delivery tours gets more and more boring. I find myself browsing the web while the triggers mostly take care of one fight, then I look at the client again and move on to the next...
It is hard to resist not scripting herb collection too, but I haven't done it. My response when I get too bored with a game is to move on or try to make it more fun myself... Not boting.
Why do people bot?
Well, I think its because:

1: Genesis suffers from power inflation.
2: The wizards have failed to provide fun ways for higher level players to gain general experience.
3: They want to become the biggest char in Genesis.
4: Sooner or later, EVERYTHING gets boring.

It should be noted about nr. 2 that I don't think its the wizards job to entertain the players of Genesis or fulfill their wishes. I think its the job of the wizards to code, write, moderate and create because they think its fun. If the players like it... good! If they don't... too bad.
There is a lot of stuff in Genesis that could be better from a players perspective, but you have to keep in mind that the wizard probably made it because he thought creating it was fun... Not to give you a *beeep* job.
Its actually a little amazing to me that people still play Genesis at all. Good goings...
If the wizards want to kill or erase, fine. If they don't, I don't care.
Why are some people so concerned with hurting the botters, I don't get it...
And actually, I don't agree with what Petros is saying about "keeping up with the Joneses" etc.

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