The Bot-hunt

[Cherek]

Instead of hijacking the other threads about this very popular subject. Here's my view.

I think punishing those who dont play "the right way" is not the right way at all. I dont know how much game design experience the admin has, but I do have some, and punishing players to get them to playing the game in a certain way is a perfect setup for a miserable game that nobody wants to play in the end. And thats the path we're walking down. Now wizards are totally stubborn and wanna do it their way, which is a good thing for the most part, but I will continue to voice my opinion that this time it is completely the wrong way to go. Read abook about game design if you dont believe me... (not meant to be mocking, really, do it if you havent!)

The way to go, if you think the players arent doing "what they should", is to change the game itself to "guide" players to play the game in the "correct" way. In this case, make a change so botting isnt such a big advantange could work. Now, botting is very lucrative since it gives you a big mortal size with very little effort. And stats is the key for many other parts of the game, especially PvP, which now is for only the huge ones. Who either has played a VERY long time, or has been botting alot. Also, herbing, forging and grinding (alone atleast) are tasks set up in such a way that without botting and scripting they are so utterly boring that most people wouldnt wanna play at all if they were forced to actually watch their character do everything for hours and hours. Its not a good recipe for a successful game. And I think its a big part why Genesis isnt a successful game for the moment. It just isnt as fun and addictive as it could be. Which is the basic part of every game. No matter how great graphics, storyline, cool weapons, etc there is. The fundamentals part is still it must be FUN and you must get that "Just another level, just 10 minutes more..."-feeling.

The goal of every game should always be that EVERY part of the game should be FUN (and addictive). Fix that, and botting wont be much of an issue anymore since most people actually rather have fun than be bored. But to be safe make it so botting wont give a big advantage, then it will be much less lucrative and people would for the most part not bother with it.

Another solution would be adding a bot for everyone to the game code. So that herbing, forging and grinding isnt so boring and everyone can grow big and gather herbs without being bored or have to go against the rules. Then they can focus more on RP, PVP, etc when they really have time, and want to play that part of the game. I would rather see the first suggestion implemented... but both would work though and is preferable instead of what we have now.

This bot-hunt will just lead to bad things. You cant force players to play like you want them to. Its never gonna work. It never has. You may force the "wrong" type of players away of course, but in the end that wont work. As long as the main game design works in favour of botting and many parts of the game are designed to be boring. People will bot. It will be an endless hunt and a lose-lose situation for everyone.

I very much like the goal that players should play the game in "a positive way" or what Gorboth said before, but that goal should also apply to the wizards. Hunting and punishing players who tries to find a way to make a flawed game atleast a little more playable is working in a negative way I think. Fixing the flaws in the game, which is the problem in the first place, is the positive way to solve the problem.

And most likely more fun to do, and way more rewarding, for everyone.

[Chanele]

Since manpower is abit low on wizards behalf such a change will take time.

About bots.
Question is: Do we really want people that uses scripts as robots with no interaction at all? If yes, why not make it a single player game while we're at it.

If wizards do have time to make changes i would suggest making size less dependant so this hunt for bigger and bigger stats will end. But then there's another problem, how do we keep players after they reach a certain point?
One solution just cause another problem...

Hard nut

[Cherek]

Its only hard if you make it hard. And not all solutions are hard, just gotta find the easy ones.

The one you suggested, is very simple code-wise. Its a choice. What type of game our developers want. If they want a game where growth is unlimited, they gotta work on making that type of game fun and addictive. And focus on those players who just wanna grow grow grow and grow.

If they want a game where stat size is more equal and focus is mainly on RP, politics, PvP, etc, then those parts must be fun and addictive.

You just cant have a game that is fun for _everyone_. Gotta make a choice and stick with it, even if people leave. Not making a choice is also a choice and its not working imho.

Personally I strongly believe if size wasnt such a big deal, or if stats, and/or titles where capped much lower, people would FIND other things to do. The game does offer alot of things in terms of pvp, rp, questing, exploring, etc, but size is such a big deal everyone is forced down that path whether they want to or not, and this is a big part on why people bot. We're humans, and thats how we play games. If there is a bigger mortal title, another level, we want it. How long are we gonna keep adding levels and stretch the playing field between old and new players I wonder?

[Rhynox]

The question is, do we want bigger titles, or are forced to get them? If I were left in peace and nobody attacked me while forging, for example, I wouldn't care about growing.

[Cherek]

I'd say we are forced. for the most part. I wouldnt grind much if titan was max and I was a titan. I didnt when I became a champion back in the days.

However uber-stats is still an issue even if titles were lower.

[Makfly]

I can only say that I wholeheartedly agree with Cherek (again).

This subject have been up several times in the recent past, and I'd also like to repeat what I've said before.
Make stats not matter much at all in PvP.
Cap stats beneficial in PvP to Rising Hero level. After that stats are beneficial when you fight against NPCs, but that's that.

Then when that is done, look into the guildstat system.
Gaining guild rank should preferbly not be solely dependant on grinding/botting. Certain guild-rp appropriate actions should help you gain guildstat (forging if you are a smith etc). Playerbased promotions too. Solving guild-related quests/tasks as well. There is tons of options to get away from a system where grinding is what propels you through the guildranks. Also if something was done about this, we'd solve the problem of people dying repeatedly to much more easily gain guildstat.

Anyways, it all boils down to one thing - Remove the requirement to grind/bot for most things, and the game would be more inviting to new people, make it more balanced for the current population, and get rid of a lot of the symptoms like rampant botting/scripting that currently plagues the game.

Again, a few Myths will be miffed that they can't lord of the rest of the game anymore. But that's really a small price to pay to fix a major problem for this game.

Please Gorboth/Admin - Make a choice on what kind of game you want Genesis to be in the future, and let us know of your vision.

[Laurel]

Again, a few Myths will be miffed that they can't lord of the rest of the game anymore. But that's really a small price to pay to fix a major problem for this game.

isn't "few Myths" like 1/3 of the active playerbase?

[Makfly]

isn't "few Myths" like 1/3 of the active playerbase?

I guees it depends on what is determined as "active playerbase", and ultimately only Gorboth have access to the numbers.
Also I don't believe that all myth's would be angry with a change in how stats are used, therefore I don't imagine all myths to come storming the Admin with torches and pitchforks.
Addtionally this is a change that is needed to ensure that Gorboth can reach his goal for doubling the playerbase, which means bringing in alot of new blood. If that is still the goal, ofcourse.

Still it would be nice to see some up to date numbers on the current playerbase.

[Cherek]

I doubt 1/3 of the active playerbasre are myths. Far from I would think. And I also doubt everyone of them would be against these types of changes.

[Laurel]

I also doubt everyone of them would be against these types of changes.

you asked all of them?

just trying to point out to you guys, that forcefed food is hardly ever delicious eventho the forcefed one doesn't complain