Why the newbie land doesn't work

[Cherek]

I also prefer the reply without quotes in most cases, but I can tolerate it.

Anyway, lots of good ideas here I think.

[Greneth]

Greneth: It's a major difference between an ntell and actually being there and follow the newbie around. But if you feel it takes a lot of time for you, let others do it and concentrate on answering the ntells.

Your right there is, having someone sit there and hold your hand throughout the beginning of the game does nothing but set them up expecting to have their hand held for the rest of the game. It's going to be quite the shock when Booger the Shadow isn't there to answer every single question when they could use a little brainpower and try a few things. I say this because people are more inclined to ask questions to someone next to them that they wouldn't ask in a public setting because of the one on one feeling. And then get upset when their needs aren't met and things become frustrating. Shocking coming from me but I got lazy with time not in the begining

To each their own though.

If you really want to go through with it though I would suggest not asking for original content to be created when I think there are several other things that could be done first that would greatly improve the game for newbies. I don't see why any character no matter their level could not be let into newbie land just restrict their commands to emotes, speech and movement. Should be much easier then setting the game up for a guest account.

[Booger]

Greneth,
You are right that the ones that actually put effort into reading everything, testing and learning, will get out of Tutori Island better off than if someone followed them around and told them how things worked. They will be able to move on smoothly into the real world, knowing about most things and able to use help files and experiment when getting stuck.
But then we will lose everyone who is not prepared to put a lot of time and effort into learning the game, which means the new ones we get are the ones who are really determined to play here.
There is a bonus with this: we'll get true hardcore players and weed out the rest, but is that the goal?
With your logic, we'd be better off without the newbie channel too. It also makes people lazy, asking there instead of finding out themselves, doesn't it?

In the beginning a newbie needs lots of help and has tons of questions. Most efficient learning method is with a teacher, just like in school.
After Tutori Isle, you are expected to know the basics and grow by yourself, but questions might still pop up that you need help with. Here we have the newbie channel. Compare with advanced studies where you are expected to learn most by yourself, but still have access to teachers when you get stuck.
And finally you put down the newbie pin and take your place as a grownup.

Still, you do have a point, and even if I disagree with you, I can't bring any evidence proving I am right.


Allowing highbies into Tutori Isle with restricted commands might work just fine. It will discourage some who don't want to lose grinding-time, but could very well be a better solution than shadow-characters. And yes, probably easier to code.

[Rhaegar]

Greneth,
There is a bonus with this: we'll get true hardcore players and weed out the rest, but is that the goal?
1. With your logic, we'd be better off without the newbie channel too. It also makes people lazy, asking there instead of finding out themselves, doesn't it?
2. In the beginning a newbie needs lots of help and has tons of questions.

3. Still, you do have a point, and even if I disagree with you, I can't bring any evidence proving I am right.

4. Allowing highbies into Tutori Isle with restricted commands might work just fine.

To address thing in their right order:
Ad. 1:
No. Newbie channel is an invaluable tool when you're stuck or need any assistance.

Ad. 2:
No. Newbie gets what newbie needs. In case of trouble he/she can always use the newbie line.

Ad. 3:
Damn straight.

Ad. 4:
No. Personally I think it's fine to give newbies ideas and hints via ntell line but I'd rather do something else than shadow someone in the Tutori Isle.
Sorry, but I'm not using scripts that allow me to be afk indefinitely when in team (ie: repair stuff, seel items, eat and drink etc. - I do have a script that allows me to idle all the time but all it does is check health/vitals every 5min and that doesn't really cut it and I use it when I need to smoke or smth.)
Even if people are capable of multi-tasking it still comes down to the question: Would you rather do something with your main or shadow a newbie inTI? I belive that most of the people would choose option #1. I mean, even if you're true newbie TI is fairly simple.

I still got to test TI on my friend though, who's never played a MUD before and get his feedback. I've shown him how it looks like on my char and even walking around seems "too fast" for him. Go figure.

[Trutblemma]

When I started playing I had never even heard of MUD, didn't know anything at all. Without someone there to hold my hand and explain how to walk, talk and such, I'd be totally lost and most likely never kept on playing. I had problems with the language too. So I had two very high thresholds to climb. With help from my friend and the signs everywhere, explaining things,
I got curious, wanted to see what the rest of the game was like. So yes, some kind of hands on help in newbie land could be needed.


I have a char in newbie land that has done everything but killing the vampire. I have used her to step in and help lost newbies at times. Sometimes ntell just isn't enough.

I know I've suggested this elsewhere.
Allow double log in with a char in newbie land. When a newbie need hands on help you simply LD with your main char and log in the newbie helper. It would be so much easier to just take a break from what you're doing with your main and go to newbie land with your help char to help out for a few minutes.

[Cherek]

Allow double log in with a char in newbie land. When a newbie need hands on help you simply LD with your main char and log in the newbie helper. It would be so much easier to just take a break from what you're doing with your main and go to newbie land with your help char to help out for a few minutes.

I think this is exactly what we should do. Why?

- It involves NO code. No work. It could be done now.
- Its completely optional.
- As I see it, there is nothing to lose, only to gain.

Play your main char, you feel the newbie-pin buzzing, if you want and arent too busy with your main, log in your newbie char. If you dont wanna multi-task, LD or idle with your main char. It cant hurt, can it?

[Rhaegar]

Haha, I can already see Cherekjr running around Tutori Isle and helping people out.

[gorboth]

One suggestion that was made that I sort of liked, which is similar in theme to Booger's, is to expand the <meditate> feature in all adventure guilds to include the possibility of entering the Tutorial in the form of a friendly creature of some kind (bird, squirrel, weasel, etc.) and meet up with newbies. If the newbie found it annoying, they would be given a command to <dismiss> the helper which would break them out of their meditation. The helper, too, would have a command to return from the trance.

This, of course, would be somewhat dangerous for the helper if they were doing this in some location where they could be attacked. But if it was part of the standard meditate, it should work in any guildhall where meditate is otherwise available.

G.

[Creed]

Or perhaps just make the person un-attackable, while being in that state of meditation.

Perhaps make it a feature to use in a common room instead. Then you already have the non-combat in place.

I don't think people helping newbies, should be fearful of what happens to their main char.. That would make people use it less, I think.

[Chanele]

I agree with Creed you should feel safe while helping out.
Not every guilds meditating rooms are safe spots.