Why the newbie land doesn't work

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Rhaegar
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Why the newbie land doesn't work

Post by Rhaegar » 17 Jan 2011 23:09

I wanted to share with you some thoughts on why Genesis is not newbie friendly and why it's impossible to make it so. It's not really a rant, just some observations of the actual facts and a trip down the memory lane, recalling some of my experiences as a newbie.
The thing is, Genesis has a VERY steep learning curve. You're being thrown in deep water right off the bat with very few clues as to how to handle it (you could compare it to a 10 year old child, left alone in the street to start its life on its own right then and there, it does have some basic knowledge and understanding but is in no way prepared for what awaits it in the world).
The Newbie Land gives you some basics but after you leave it, you're like the child mentioned above - you just have no idea what to do and what can possibly happen to you. Modern games have spoiled people, especially MMO type games, where you're being led by the hand from start to finish. You progress through areas of increasing difficulty. In Genesis it's quite different, it's all mixed up. You have your orc temple near Sparkle, where newbie can kill easily and not so far away you have giants who can smash even bigger players to a pulp, and they're aggressive to boot.
In the real Genesis you also have a lot of things that experienced players learned to avoid but newbie has no clue about. Some examples would include: random exits (often paired with invisible exits), traps, faerie dragons, NPCs aggressive towards xxx but passive towards xxx, questmasters sending you to other domains, various transports (wagons, ships, chariots and what not), dragonfear, orc camp with huge orcs in it, where it's easy to get lost, right in the middle of the road from one newbie area to another etc. etc.
I think that adding the newbie area was great but it can be misleading a bit, as it's designed just like your regular MMO today, not like Genesis.
In the past, I was starting out Gen with some irl friends and this is really what kept me going. We would play then meet in the bar and recall stuff that happened in the game over a beer ("Dude, why did you take us to this blasted forest? We all got lost and spent over an hour to get out!" or "Damn, we've shown this Argossian Guards the meaning of proper fighting, didn't we?" *the highest of fives*). Also, at the time there were a lot of people active in the lower level ranges (5-7 Cadets online 24/7 was pretty much standard) so you did most of the things in team rather than alone.
We really should ask some true newbies what are they thoughts on Genesis. I can make new characters and get them to grow because I've got enough years of experience playing this game that I'm able to avoid the risks, I know where to go and what to do. If I didn't I'd probably get frustrated after a day or two and just leave.

General point being: It's damn hard now for newbies with our relatively low low-level playerbase and that I believe most of them come to try it out alone and not with friends who could share some of the burden.
Any ideas how can this be solved? Could creating a general newbie knowledge base (with maps, quests, leveling guide which Gub's creating etc.) and putting it on the main page help?

Edit: Because a picture is worth a thousand words and there's a similarly hard game to Genesis out there (incidentally it's ASCII based too) I thought I'd throw out related images.
Just substitute Dwarf Fortress for Genesis and it's all real.

Image

Image
I fear no evil for I am fear incarnate.

Booger
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Re: Why the newbie land doesn't work

Post by Booger » 20 Jan 2011 23:14

Yes, the learning curve is pretty steep. Especially if you are new to the whole concept of mud. Some of us don't mind, but there are probably plenty of people who want to get to the action (fighting and killing) without first having to learn about eating, drinking, stats, skills, equipment, fatigue etc.
The help signs are very useful, but having to read through 20 signs before you get to kill your first rabbit might discourage some people.

So, how about a walkthrough that leads them through newbie land, showing them how to solve the quests, kill things etc without bothering too much about non-essential things.
This way they will learn what mudding is all about. They will get to the action and feel the joy of success and advancement without too much initial reading. Once they are stuck, they can start delving deeper in the mysteries of the unarmed combat switch, one versus two weapons versus two shields, whether strength or dex is the best stat for fighters, and everything else that you can spend hours and hours reading about.

I've written a walkthrough that I think will be pretty easy to follow, leading the new player through everything he needs in Tutori Island, skipping anything unnecessary, and concentrating on getting the player quickly to the action. Following it should get you through the quests while teaching you the basic things you need to know, when that knowledge is needed:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~tomca/genesi ... hrough.txt
It's not perfect. It's not tested. And it ought to be a bit longer, showing you to the important places (shops, questmasters, guilds, xp-areas etc) in the real world.
But it should be a good enough as example. I'd like to see something like this on the new Genesis homepage. I do believe it can catch a number of people who would otherwise get bored and quit because, after 2 hours, they are still learning about how to order a drink.

(This guide has quest information, which is illegal, I know. But please, this is the _Tutorial_ Island - the quest is supposed to be easy enough to encourage people, and anyone getting stuck here ought to get helped fast, before getting pissed of and leaving)
Booger/Cindy/Enigma

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Rhaegar
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Re: Why the newbie land doesn't work

Post by Rhaegar » 20 Jan 2011 23:51

Wow, I didn't know you could use "present me" instead of "introduce me".
And I believe your guide is a bit too walk-by-hand.

It should be more like:
- go to Matilda
- ask Matilda stuff
- get to Bibbiss

If you're giving them complete walkthrough, including all the commands you have to type they're just learning to mechanically type instead of how the things actually function.
And I don't think such a walkthrough is necessary for the newbie area. It's relatively small, the magic map is active there and quests guide you through themselves quite good.

What it should really look like:
- after getting a couple of levels in unarmed combat and defence, focus all your efforts on trading
- when you've maxed out trading, continue training unarmed combat and defence
- keep eating stuff from the fields as necessary (you can repeatedly type <pick vegetable> <eat vegetable> until you are full)
- blahblah
- to fight the vampire you should be wearing a large animal pelt, full set of demonhide armours and a filthy weapon from the guards (so far I've had the most success with axe, didn't get to try the morning-star yet), remember to have garlic on you, eat before combat and bring some alcohol with you

You know, things like that. It sure will take away some of the discovery factor but should speed things up greatly.
I fear no evil for I am fear incarnate.

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gorboth
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Re: Why the newbie land doesn't work

Post by gorboth » 20 Jan 2011 23:58

Wow, Booger! Nice work on the tutorial ... uh ... tutorial! I think with a bit of spit and polish (possibly some more reader-intuitive formatting?) this might indeed have a place on the website.

G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

Laurel

Re: Why the newbie land doesn't work

Post by Laurel » 21 Jan 2011 10:39

please supply us with a walkthrough for the rest of Gen as well ... wait, those are ILLEGAL?!?!?! why would the newbie quest walkthrough be legal, when all other are not?

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Cherek
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Re: Why the newbie land doesn't work

Post by Cherek » 21 Jan 2011 12:23

Laurel: Because they are NEWBIE quest walkthroughs?

Laurel

Re: Why the newbie land doesn't work

Post by Laurel » 21 Jan 2011 14:54

compared to Fade or Ilrahil I am a noob as well, hence I request walkthroughs are created and allowed to be used for me

also - please make double logging available in the newbie land, as well as always saving gear ... surely this won't increase the difference between the newbie land and rest of Gen

I got my GF to try Gen a while ago - she was quite sucked in by the newbie area (she even liked bunny-grinding!) and lost ANY and ALL interest in Gen after entering the portal and seeing how large and different (compared to newbie land) the "real" Genesis is ... you can surely increase this gap more by allowing things, that are not available in the rest of Gen

an example: the Gen-map (not the www one) - working in newbie land, but not quite in the next places you'd like newbies to go and grind like Shire, Calia or Krynn ... so they get lost
another: combat (what do you mean with "type donk both"?) - totally easy in newbie land and quite unrelated to ones skills (for the grinding part)
another: make a walkthrough for newbie-land, but prohibit it for other areas

so all in one: you advertise (with newbie-land) something else than you sell ...

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Re: Why the newbie land doesn't work

Post by Chanele » 21 Jan 2011 15:11

Omg Laurel...

Laurel

Re: Why the newbie land doesn't work

Post by Laurel » 21 Jan 2011 16:36

Chanele wrote:Omg Laurel...
erhm ... you're right, I'm sorry - I totally give in, convinced by your tremendous amount and incredible quality of arguments :oops:

Booger
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Re: Why the newbie land doesn't work

Post by Booger » 21 Jan 2011 20:07

Good point, Laurel!
Obnoxious, maybe, but valid.
For a discussion to be a discussion, someone has to take the opposing side and try to see the flaws (... twist them, exaggerating them, pulling them to the extreme and then throw them back in your face :twisted: ).

About double logins, maybe it actually would be a good idea? Not for new players to have more than one character logged in, but perhaps to allow highbies like you a second login char, allowed only in Tutori Isle. This would give you a possibility to team up with whoever you convince to start playing here, having and making fun with him/her, while still being able to grind with your other character... Maybe?

About the gap between Tutori Isle and the next area being too big, that's why I suggested the walkthrough to continue a bit further, showing where the important things are, including the xp areas and the questmasters, but this time not taking you through the quests (maybe a hint, but not too much).
Probably wouldn't hurt to let newbies keep their equipment when going through the portal, or are they that unbalanced?

Thanks, Gorboth. If I start a new character I will probably fix the walkthrough to make sure it's correct. As for making it look good and inviting - it's not my strength. But anyone may use any of my files and do with them whatever they wish, so maybe someone with an eye for esthetics will be interested, once the new site is up?
Booger/Cindy/Enigma

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