Why the newbie land doesn't work

[Cherek]

Laurel: What are you talking about? What Booger suggested was to make the gap between the newbie area and the real world smaller by creating a startup-guide for the real world. This is also the whole point with the new newbie grinding dungeon and the new Sparkle. So from what I can see everyone wants just that - make the gap smaller.

The magic map works in Sparkle and Gelan so far. As you can see if you look at the map it says anyone can help adding new material to it. So if you do want to help out in some way, use the Crossbearer maps as reference and convert them to magic map style. That would surely be very helpful for newbies, and others as well. Anyone can help with this not only wizards, so instead of moaning about how bad everything is and how you wont play anymore because the game doesnt support your playing style, why dont you help out in making the game better then? Obviously you still care or you would not be here.

Booger: I think the double-login thing would be very good. Newbie helpers should be able to have a newbie char in the newbie area, or even beyond I think. A mentor-char-type of the same size as the newbies who can show them around. I suggested something similar awhile back along with a "guest" account that gives you a randomized fantasy name and race immediately, so you can try the game without creating a character, and get thrown right in instead. if I am not toally mistaken I think Gorboth has mentioned this on some todo-list as well.

[Creed]

I disagree with the double login.

One thing is to help newbies with hints and ideas and knowledge of where to go/look for something.
That person wouldn't learn anything if you were leading a team, as a newbie double-logined person, and taking them here, there and everywhere.
As hard as it is, they still need to learn to move around, and find their ways to different places.

It would also just mean that a lot of "newbies" seemed to be present on the isle, while in fact people were busy grinding or whatever with their real char.
And thus creating a false image of how things really look.

[Chanele]

How can double long in even work? You cant be active with two characters at once.
The other ideas are good.

[Cherek]

Creed: The idea wasnt to fool anyone, I meant for theose chracters to be player controlled "mentors" who can be around and help a newbie - if they want it.

The problem now is just what you describe, that when a newbie joins a team of "grownups" they get taken along some grinding-tour full of spam and most likely not understanding or learning a thing.

I meant the mentors should be people who want to, and understand how to, best help and greet newbies. Not people who take them on walkthroughs.

Chanele: What do you mean? Its perfectly possible to have as many characters as you want logged in at the same time? For instance wizards do it all the time with their "junior"-chars they use to test things. And why couldnt you be active with two chars at once? I bet most people can multi-task enough to be more active with two chars at once than most people are with one in their trigger-controlled grinding teams.

[Booger]

For double logins, the idea I had in mind was to follow the newbie, not to lead him. But I can see how this can easily switch ("Let's go sell the loot. It's... hmm... better let me lead - it'll be faster.")
But it can easily be fixed: Your newbie-second is a shadow of yourself. Like this...

To log in with your newbie-helper, you connect as usual, but when asked for name, you write "SHADOW". Then you are asked for name again, and password, and here you write your normal name and password. This creates a character that looks like you and has the same name like your normal character, except it is easily seen that you are not a real player "shadow of Booger". This character can only exist in Tutori Isle, and it can't lead, can't fight and can't pick up or carry any objects. But it CAN follow others and it CAN talk.
So you can't boost any newbie, but you CAN follow him around, keeping him company, give advice, encourage him, cheer at his successes and when he gets stuck you can help him fast and easy without him having to ask for help, explaining his problem, and the helpers trying to figure out where he is and what he's trying to do.
Having your real name will have the bonus of him being able to recognize you in the real world, thus getting the feeling of having one friend out there that he has already met.
And being shadows, they won't have to show up on the who-list, and newbies won't be fooled.

A guest character to try out the game will have its drawbacks - it's easier to get stuck if you have put some time in a character and gotten somewhere with it, while with a guest account you might instead be reluctant to create a real character, knowing that you will have to start over from scratch again.
But it will also have a major bonus of being able to try the game without all the bother of creating a character. If Guest is added, I'd suggest giving him some initial stats and skills, and placing him either by the rabbits or even in the wolf forest, so he can try the interesting part of killing things without having to find his way through the village first.

[Kitriana]

i have been rather anti this idea of having guest or second in newbie land to help player until now. but booger's idea of the shadow. I rather like it - the idea... limitations of it... if something like that could be implemented.. i wouldn't have such a huge problem with it. You become an interactive guide for the newbie without being able to physically help them.

[Rhaegar]

You mean, something like sending a necro skull to the newbies? This could work...

[Greneth]

For double logins, the idea I had in mind was to follow the newbie, not to lead him. But I can see how this can easily switch ("Let's go sell the loot. It's... hmm... better let me lead - it'll be faster.")
But it can easily be fixed: Your newbie-second is a shadow of yourself. Like this...

To log in with your newbie-helper, you connect as usual, but when asked for name, you write "SHADOW". Then you are asked for name again, and password, and here you write your normal name and password. This creates a character that looks like you and has the same name like your normal character, except it is easily seen that you are not a real player "shadow of Booger". This character can only exist in Tutori Isle, and it can't lead, can't fight and can't pick up or carry any objects. But it CAN follow others and it CAN talk.
So you can't boost any newbie, but you CAN follow him around, keeping him company, give advice, encourage him, cheer at his successes and when he gets stuck you can help him fast and easy without him having to ask for help, explaining his problem, and the helpers trying to figure out where he is and what he's trying to do.
Having your real name will have the bonus of him being able to recognize you in the real world, thus getting the feeling of having one friend out there that he has already met.
And being shadows, they won't have to show up on the who-list, and newbies won't be fooled.

A guest character to try out the game will have its drawbacks - it's easier to get stuck if you have put some time in a character and gotten somewhere with it, while with a guest account you might instead be reluctant to create a real character, knowing that you will have to start over from scratch again.
But it will also have a major bonus of being able to try the game without all the bother of creating a character. If Guest is added, I'd suggest giving him some initial stats and skills, and placing him either by the rabbits or even in the wolf forest, so he can try the interesting part of killing things without having to find his way through the village first.

While I'm not against it newbie land does take a bit of time of which I cannot do anything but talk and to be honest this is no different then just using ntell to me as the only thing I could do would be communicate with the newbie.

[Booger]

For double logins, the idea I had in mind was to follow the newbie, not to lead him. But I can see how this can easily switch ("Let's go sell the loot. It's... hmm... better let me lead - it'll be faster.")
But it can easily be fixed: Your newbie-second is a shadow of yourself. Like this...

To log in with your newbie-helper, you connect as usual, but when asked for name, you write "SHADOW". Then you are asked for name again, and password, and here you write your normal name and password. This creates a character that looks like you and has the same name like your normal character, except it is easily seen that you are not a real player "shadow of Booger". This character can only exist in Tutori Isle, and it can't lead, can't fight and can't pick up or carry any objects. But it CAN follow others and it CAN talk.
So you can't boost any newbie, but you CAN follow him around, keeping him company, give advice, encourage him, cheer at his successes and when he gets stuck you can help him fast and easy without him having to ask for help, explaining his problem, and the helpers trying to figure out where he is and what he's trying to do.
Having your real name will have the bonus of him being able to recognize you in the real world, thus getting the feeling of having one friend out there that he has already met.
And being shadows, they won't have to show up on the who-list, and newbies won't be fooled.

A guest character to try out the game will have its drawbacks - it's easier to get stuck if you have put some time in a character and gotten somewhere with it, while with a guest account you might instead be reluctant to create a real character, knowing that you will have to start over from scratch again.
But it will also have a major bonus of being able to try the game without all the bother of creating a character. If Guest is added, I'd suggest giving him some initial stats and skills, and placing him either by the rabbits or even in the wolf forest, so he can try the interesting part of killing things without having to find his way through the village first.

While I'm not against it newbie land does take a bit of time of which I cannot do anything but talk and to be honest this is no different then just using ntell to me as the only thing I could do would be communicate with the newbie.

Instead of quoting a huge amount of text that can easily be found just above, how about doing like this:

Greneth: It's a major difference between an ntell and actually being there and follow the newbie around. But if you feel it takes a lot of time for you, let others do it and concentrate on answering the ntells.

[Booger]

For double logins, the idea I had in mind was to follow the newbie, not to lead him. But I can see how this can easily switch ("Let's go sell the loot. It's... hmm... better let me lead - it'll be faster.")
But it can easily be fixed: Your newbie-second is a shadow of yourself. Like this...

To log in with your newbie-helper, you connect as usual, but when asked for name, you write "SHADOW". Then you are asked for name again, and password, and here you write your normal name and password. This creates a character that looks like you and has the same name like your normal character, except it is easily seen that you are not a real player "shadow of Booger". This character can only exist in Tutori Isle, and it can't lead, can't fight and can't pick up or carry any objects. But it CAN follow others and it CAN talk.
So you can't boost any newbie, but you CAN follow him around, keeping him company, give advice, encourage him, cheer at his successes and when he gets stuck you can help him fast and easy without him having to ask for help, explaining his problem, and the helpers trying to figure out where he is and what he's trying to do.
Having your real name will have the bonus of him being able to recognize you in the real world, thus getting the feeling of having one friend out there that he has already met.
And being shadows, they won't have to show up on the who-list, and newbies won't be fooled.

A guest character to try out the game will have its drawbacks - it's easier to get stuck if you have put some time in a character and gotten somewhere with it, while with a guest account you might instead be reluctant to create a real character, knowing that you will have to start over from scratch again.
But it will also have a major bonus of being able to try the game without all the bother of creating a character. If Guest is added, I'd suggest giving him some initial stats and skills, and placing him either by the rabbits or even in the wolf forest, so he can try the interesting part of killing things without having to find his way through the village first.

While I'm not against it newbie land does take a bit of time of which I cannot do anything but talk and to be honest this is no different then just using ntell to me as the only thing I could do would be communicate with the newbie.

Instead of quoting a huge amount of text that can easily be found just above, how about doing like this:

Greneth: It's a major difference between an ntell and actually being there and follow the newbie around. But if you feel it takes a lot of time for you, let others do it and concentrate on answering the ntells.

Or am I the only one getting irritated on huge quotes?