What does/should a layman signify about the character

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Alexi
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What does/should a layman signify about the character

Post by Alexi » 24 Feb 2011 22:16

I'd like to hear the opinion of all the Donut_Dwellers on this, so weigh in cause we all know everyone has an opinion!

Question: What does a Layman guild signify about the Character? Should he be seen as "sympathetic" to a certain domain/guild's plight, or are they the same as someone in the Occupational guild? (Think KoT vs PoT/DA, Angmar Layman vs Occupational, Neidar or Shieldbearers). Can someone be a Gladiator/KoT and still be friendly with Knights, or how about a Union/Necro and teaming with DO members. What draws the line?

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Rhaegar
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Re: What does/should a layman signify about the character

Post by Rhaegar » 24 Feb 2011 22:32

I guess it's up to the players. Some tend to lean more towards RP while others aren't as strict.
Personally, I don't really understand all the DO/AA people running around (powerplay should never trump roleplay in my book), nor a sight of a DO guy teaming with MM or NoVD would find my approval.
The same goes for ToT teaming with KoS (with guilt being on both sides here since even if ToT guy would want to team with KoS they shouldn't allow it), SB going against NC (after all, you signed up for protection of Iron Delving in the first place, no?) and so on.

By joining a guild (regardless if it's racial, layman or occupational) you show your support for its values, goals, ways and other members.

Edit: In your case Alexi (I assume you're DO/AA) I'd read it as a support of Morgul Mages, of whom some are also members of AA and technically the guild is Witch-king's private army, which is quite a violation of DO principles.
But I'm not a member of DO council so I can't really rule on that.
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Dorrien
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Re: What does/should a layman signify about the character

Post by Dorrien » 24 Feb 2011 23:20

I too believe that when you join a guild that actually has affiliations and values you should uphold and represent that guild. If you are a Templar Knight you should be for Takhisis' cause and not team with her enemies. If you are a member of a layman that truly is neutral, BM, Minotaurs, Minstrels, Gardeners ;) then you are free to do as you Occupational guild dictates. I also think that you should be in OCC/LAY combination that compliment one another thematically. DA/Temp makes sense. KoS/Cav makes sense. And in these you should show your support of the affiliations of the guilds. Sets that would not make sense KoS/Thief or Neidar/AA or even DO/AA doesnt quite make sense either.

I basically think you should be in a guild set that does not contradict either guild you are a member of. And when in a guild you should support and be sympathetic to said guild's cause.

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Re: What does/should a layman signify about the character

Post by Makfly » 24 Feb 2011 23:22

If you're serious about roleplaying your character and staying true to it, the choices of layman guilds are often times going to be very restricted, as many OCC guilds clash theme/lore-wise with many Layman guilds. This is especially noticable when many Layman guilds require utmost loyalty etc, to their theme, which obviously clash with OCC guild themes.
But if you're not interested in roleplaying, I'd say anything goes within the rules of the game.

Which brings me back to an old idea of mine, that the game needed a Mercenary layman branch, that gave you combat-help but no title or affiliation of any kind. Such a truely "neutral/blank" combat layman would help alleviate the lore-wise clash vs gameplay desire for combat support as mentioned above.
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Johnny
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Re: What does/should a layman signify about the character

Post by Johnny » 24 Feb 2011 23:23

Or a bludgeon and polearm version of the blademasters :twisted:

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Re: What does/should a layman signify about the character

Post by Amberlee » 24 Feb 2011 23:34

a sword version of the militia...
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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Rhaegar
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Re: What does/should a layman signify about the character

Post by Rhaegar » 25 Feb 2011 01:41

Johnny wrote:Or a bludgeon and polearm version of the blademasters :twisted:
Just turning blademasters into weaponmasters (ie: any weapon goes as far as your skill is sufficient) would work better in my opinion.
The bludgeon version would have very limited interest in:
90% of AA are layman, occ members are either minos or long time members of other layman guilds and would be rather reluctant to switch I think.
NC can be shieldbearers, which in my opinion is better than being a blademaster (it's a matter of personal preference I believe).
This leaves mercs who can either join AA lay and go smashing or just pick another weapon and join blademasters (swords > clubs anyway) or militia.

The polearm version?
Mercs, RDA, Calians, Rangers - Mercs, Rangers and Calians can join Militia, so you would be basically creating a layman guild for RDA, which is dead and perhaps a couple of evil aligned mercs who can't join militia but sure can pick sword skill and go regular blademasters (and swords > polearms).
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Re: What does/should a layman signify about the character

Post by Johnny » 25 Feb 2011 02:11

Nonetheless a weapons master layman guild will allow for someone to play more of a neutral character. So they don't have to be tied down by alignment or guild alliances

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Cherek
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Re: What does/should a layman signify about the character

Post by Cherek » 25 Feb 2011 02:26

I agree with what most have said. I do not think your layman counts for "less" than your occupational guild. If you're an AA layman, you should be prepared to follow AA rules just as any other AA member, and have the same enemies, and be treated as an enemy by those who oppose them.

However, I do think pretty much all layman/OCC combination can work. If you figure out a way to make it work RP-wise. Even monk/AA. Why not? Its not like AA are heavily pvp these days, they are far from the big badass guild they once were and most AAs seem quite nice and friendly to just about everyone. So why cant you be following the teachings of Segoy and learn martial arts, and still support Sauron? Or why cant you support Sauron, and only pretend to support Segoy to gain acess to the martial arts skill? Its all about how you RP it.
Makfly wrote:Which brings me back to an old idea of mine, that the game needed a Mercenary layman branch, that gave you combat-help but no title or affiliation of any kind. Such a truely "neutral/blank" combat layman would help alleviate the lore-wise clash vs gameplay desire for combat support as mentioned above
That is truely a great idea I think. Mercs occupational provides you with the chance to only RP your layman guild, for those who wishes to RP only their occupational guild the choices are pretty limited, and for most guilds / races not even possible.

Ilrahil

Re: What does/should a layman signify about the character

Post by Ilrahil » 25 Feb 2011 03:34

I think the biggest problem with a lot of guilds is allegiances to other specific members or other guilds "ruling" guilds they aren't a part of.

For example, I've been told how I should run the BDA by the leader of a guild who thinks they have more power over me. I've also been told by people that certain members of another guild would frown upon them teaming with me because i'm a necromancer and it would be bad for guild relations.

I think people need to worry about their own RP story and not others and many of these issues would be cleared up. If a shieldbearer teams with someone who isn't an enemy of the clan but is evil, the Clan should have no control over that aspect of that persons reasons for teaming with them. But they can technically remove that person from the guild.

If a Calian teams with someone who is in AA but isn't an enemy of Calia who is it hurting? The game is so small nowadays that if everyone honors what hardcore RP'ers believe is the best route your team options are extremely limited, and solo'ing in genesis gets boring even for the people who prefer solo'ing.

Having said that if someone say from the monks teams with a Necromancer. I will use Homestar for example as him and myself teamed often. Homestar as a player and me were close friends. Homestar as a character was always trying to turn Ilrahil from his Necromantic ways. To me that is perfectly acceptable roleplay and should not be frowned upon.

Its your story, you make it what you want to and if its plausible and makes sense to you, why do you have to justify to other people why you are doing it. If they are not an enemy of the guild etc.

It was frowned upon that A member of SCOP teamed with two of my officers and that they used FBB's that were given because those FBB's if they were put in the rack could be used by me a Necromancer. So where does that line get drawn? I can punish my soldiers for not sharing their gear with the entire army, or as I did backed off and let the situation ride out so that the member of SCOP did not get in trouble for it. I think if people focused more on their own storyline and integrated it into their RP the game would be a much friendlier place for any faction, however people seem to quick to judge and instill what they think a guild should be all about and frown upon anything that goes away from the norm.

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