Last time I checked there were 9 players awake. And we never get above 15 these days.
Is this really a problem?
We need more players. With more players the areas you speak of will be explored, and since new players will be much smaller there will be alot of XP-grounds for them.
I dont think we oldies need more really, not now with this small playerbase. Yes, I think it is preferable people actually do bump into eachother than everyone sitting in their corner of the world. "Explore the lore". Come on, we have been playing for 10+ years, most of us know every corner of the world already. With more prime XP areas people will be even more alone scripting. Its naive to think anything else in my opinion.
If you wanna do something I believe in the re-scale of the world, so everything becomes bigger and actually pose a challenge, yeah it may spread out people too, so its not perfect, but atleast it would encourage teaming.
But I think all suggestions are very complicated ones to solve a very small problem, and new players would solve this too and thats what we should focus on. A huge recode of the world for the 10-15 players awake sounds to me like a big waste of time when it could be spent on getting new players.
Scaling NPCs
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Laurel
Re: Scaling NPCs
Cherek wrote:Last time I checked there were 9 players awake. And we never get above 15 these days.
(...)
atleast it would encourage teaming
Re: Scaling NPCs
Laurel: I get your point, but what do you suggest we do? Encourage single play? Then we could let people download the game on their own computer...
By encouraging teaming atleast some of those 10-15 will team up, and maybe they will have fun, which will lead to them waking up more, creating a positive spiral.
So yeah anything that makes the few people we have spend time awake together is good in my book. But its just my personal opinion.
I mean there are tons of options if you wanna be alone still. Its not like that is gonna change just because we have a few more areas that require teaming. There's plenty of single player content left.
By encouraging teaming atleast some of those 10-15 will team up, and maybe they will have fun, which will lead to them waking up more, creating a positive spiral.
So yeah anything that makes the few people we have spend time awake together is good in my book. But its just my personal opinion.
I mean there are tons of options if you wanna be alone still. Its not like that is gonna change just because we have a few more areas that require teaming. There's plenty of single player content left.
Re: Scaling NPCs
Cherek, though I don't have you in memory so its hard to see how "active" you are, I haven't seen your name for sometime. That being said and going off the assumption you don't play anymore (Unless its on a different character) I can honestly say that the game hasn't changed its method of operation for quite sometime over the past 3-5 years. The last conflict I could remember was when the Vampire Clan was active and there was a ton of player interaction because you had two warring factions.Cherek wrote:Laurel: I get your point, but what do you suggest we do? Encourage single play? Then we could let people download the game on their own computer...
By encouraging teaming atleast some of those 10-15 will team up, and maybe they will have fun, which will lead to them waking up more, creating a positive spiral.
So yeah anything that makes the few people we have spend time awake together is good in my book. But its just my personal opinion.
I mean there are tons of options if you wanna be alone still. Its not like that is gonna change just because we have a few more areas that require teaming. There's plenty of single player content left.
Anways to me, its the same ole same ole, with the expection of the imbuement implementation which was positive. But people team up, one person leads, they run around grinding the normal areas (Icewall, Mithas, Qualinosti, Neraka, Centaurs, Faeurn, Kalaman, Terel), and if they aren't doing that, they are questing or herbing.
Personally I think the idea of more grounds would be a positive thing, but I can see most are against it thinking we'll have some out-of-balance size difference between the people who have been here forever, and those who are start. But the fact remains, Genesis has still not been able to draw in a sizeable (I'm not talking getting 3-4 people to TRY Genesis out) population and keep them.
Not everyone strictly plays to jump on and roleplay with other players, but they roleplay as "part" of their daily game-play while out slaying or grinding, and if there's nobody around, they just grind.
If we continue to bank on the fact that at some time in the near future we will have a influx of new players, and only worry about developing the game around that, that's putting all your eggs in one basket to me. If you stop thinking on how to improve the game for the current population, and the new player idea fails, you might end up losing some of the older players who've been loyal to the game.
Then you went from a Win/Lose to a Lose/Lose. The Imbuement System was a great implementation, gives a new angle. Now they need to fix pigeon-holing everyone into 2-3 Realms for all our daily travel if you aren't a "sit out and hang around" guy.
Re: Scaling NPCs
Alexi:
Assumptions usually never lead to something good.
I play quite actively and has done for years. I simply prefer not to use my ingame character name here since I think what you say here reflects too much in your char. I prefer to keep it separeted. So you will have to trust me when I say I am very updated on how gameplay work today.
And I completely agree with how you feel daily gameplay works.
About drawing in new players. Nobody has ever really tried to draw in new players. So we do not know how that would work really. But I am very certain that without a big influx of new players the game will be empty fairly soon. I think there is not a change we can do that will make this game live on without new characters. Old ones leave. In all games. Actually our playerbase is extremely loyal, and thats is the only reason there still are some people awake.
Having that said I am not against changes that are good for the old population but also a new population. I do not think scaling NPCs is the answer though. I already mentioned earlier what I think would be better to work on. (New ways of grinding that just isnt the same old script-friendly grind). That is what I would like to see. Scaling NPCs I doubt will do anything but promote scripting, but hey thats my opinion. I could be wrong.
But fine, I agree that it would not be bad to change things to make the game more fun for old players as well. I am just saying I think the priority should be to get new players. I am quite discouraged myself to see that extremly little is being done about this. Almost nothing has been done in 10 years to attract new players. I think that is very sad, and I would like to see someone actually work on that instead of other things. Almost everything that has been done in the last 10 years has been done for the old playerbase. So yeah, I think its time someone tried to do something to fill the game with players instead of adding more stuff to keep us old ones interested.
It doesnt have much to do with your suggestions though, guess I got carried away.
But regardless of that, no I dont like the idea of scaling NPCs. I think it will make people script more, interact less, and thematically its illogical. I would prefer a more interesting way to grind instead, with dungeons, bosses, assualt/defend dungeons, raids, etc.
And please dont angry, thats just what I think.
Assumptions usually never lead to something good.
I play quite actively and has done for years. I simply prefer not to use my ingame character name here since I think what you say here reflects too much in your char. I prefer to keep it separeted. So you will have to trust me when I say I am very updated on how gameplay work today.And I completely agree with how you feel daily gameplay works.
About drawing in new players. Nobody has ever really tried to draw in new players. So we do not know how that would work really. But I am very certain that without a big influx of new players the game will be empty fairly soon. I think there is not a change we can do that will make this game live on without new characters. Old ones leave. In all games. Actually our playerbase is extremely loyal, and thats is the only reason there still are some people awake.
Having that said I am not against changes that are good for the old population but also a new population. I do not think scaling NPCs is the answer though. I already mentioned earlier what I think would be better to work on. (New ways of grinding that just isnt the same old script-friendly grind). That is what I would like to see. Scaling NPCs I doubt will do anything but promote scripting, but hey thats my opinion. I could be wrong.
But fine, I agree that it would not be bad to change things to make the game more fun for old players as well. I am just saying I think the priority should be to get new players. I am quite discouraged myself to see that extremly little is being done about this. Almost nothing has been done in 10 years to attract new players. I think that is very sad, and I would like to see someone actually work on that instead of other things. Almost everything that has been done in the last 10 years has been done for the old playerbase. So yeah, I think its time someone tried to do something to fill the game with players instead of adding more stuff to keep us old ones interested.
It doesnt have much to do with your suggestions though, guess I got carried away.
But regardless of that, no I dont like the idea of scaling NPCs. I think it will make people script more, interact less, and thematically its illogical. I would prefer a more interesting way to grind instead, with dungeons, bosses, assualt/defend dungeons, raids, etc.
And please dont angry
, thats just what I think.Re: Scaling NPCs
Cherek wrote:Alexi:
And please dont angry
Angry? The opposite actually, I think dialogue is good for solving problems, and the Wizards can take what they wish from the player discussion that happen on this forum.
I wouldn't wish for script-friendly areas, but that being said it has nothing to do with scaleable-NPCS. Right now roaming groups of NPCs could be implemented in all the heavily XP'd areas that teams would need to adapt to or get in trouble fast. Can triggers and variables be implimented via mud-clients to avoid these groups and run to the next set of mobs. Of course, we are playing a game based off of a computer language, there's always going to be those smart enough to figure out the code.
What Scaleable NPCS would improve without question is other areas being utilized in the game, and with the current population and banking on the fact even though we will push for the major advertising of Genesis in hopes to draw new players, it might not happen. Then you are left back at ground zero, hoping nobody left in the processes if this fails (which i really hope it doesn't) and now have to figure out how to retain your current population which is small as it is. Will people being able to kill in any area solve the "boredom" factor of mindless grinding, no definitely not. Does it add more flavor to their routine, yes.
I don't think this game will die, until the current population gets old enough (say 40s-50s) to let it go and have different priorities.
Re: Scaling NPCs
Alexi: Sorry, old habit expecting the worst when criticizing someone's idea. I too think "arguing" back and forth is the best way to get somewhere.
No I dont buy it still. I think the key to get people to script less is to introduce things that are actually more fun and rewaring than scripting our current grinding areas. What you suggest is adding something that penalizes scripters (roaming "patrols"). I think such solutions most likely will annoy players. They want to grind without paying much attention to the screen, forcing them to look at the screen wont make it more _fun_, it will just make it more risky.
So no, I think you will get more areas where everyone can go grind. But the actual grinding process remains the same. With or without patrols. I think making grinding more fun and less repetetive is the key to have less scripting and more interaction. And possibly players who have more fun while playing, which leads to them staying more, and playing more. Now if you add an area with patrols, roaming NPCs of different sizez, a boss or two, some traps, etc, and then add a reward if player(s) successfully clear it, then it could perhaps make grinding more fun. But the same old areas with a "bot-hunting" patrol I dont think will. We need more than that to make it fun. And a reward for our attention to the screen would not hurt either.
But if what you want to achieve is more areas utilized, then I would think the "global rescale" discussed in the other thread is preferable. That way the game will remain the same as it is. The world will just be bigger, which would re-introduce many old grinding areas again. Which is what you want to achieve?
You want to add more flavour to grinding, I get it, but having NPCs scale to the match attacker sounds to me like the opposite. No matter if i kill krougs, trolls, small children or ants, I still gain the same experience? I understood it like you wanted a global change so all NPCs scale? It makes absolutely no sense to me. I think it sounds more boring than now. You dont need a team for anything. Teaming or solo doesnt matter. All boss-NPCs are the same as anything else you grind. A dragon attacks you suddenly, doesnt matter, it scales to match you anyway. I think one of the absolute cores of this type of game is to grow bigger so you can kill bigger things. Take on larger foes. Etc. You want to remove that? Then what are we left with?
What exactly are we grinding for? Why are we growing? If all NPCs match you no matter your size, your size does not matter at all except in PVP, which currently does not exist more or less.
I too think "arguing" back and forth is the best way to get somewhere.No I dont buy it still. I think the key to get people to script less is to introduce things that are actually more fun and rewaring than scripting our current grinding areas. What you suggest is adding something that penalizes scripters (roaming "patrols"). I think such solutions most likely will annoy players. They want to grind without paying much attention to the screen, forcing them to look at the screen wont make it more _fun_, it will just make it more risky.
So no, I think you will get more areas where everyone can go grind. But the actual grinding process remains the same. With or without patrols. I think making grinding more fun and less repetetive is the key to have less scripting and more interaction. And possibly players who have more fun while playing, which leads to them staying more, and playing more. Now if you add an area with patrols, roaming NPCs of different sizez, a boss or two, some traps, etc, and then add a reward if player(s) successfully clear it, then it could perhaps make grinding more fun. But the same old areas with a "bot-hunting" patrol I dont think will. We need more than that to make it fun. And a reward for our attention to the screen would not hurt either.
But if what you want to achieve is more areas utilized, then I would think the "global rescale" discussed in the other thread is preferable. That way the game will remain the same as it is. The world will just be bigger, which would re-introduce many old grinding areas again. Which is what you want to achieve?
You want to add more flavour to grinding, I get it, but having NPCs scale to the match attacker sounds to me like the opposite. No matter if i kill krougs, trolls, small children or ants, I still gain the same experience? I understood it like you wanted a global change so all NPCs scale? It makes absolutely no sense to me. I think it sounds more boring than now. You dont need a team for anything. Teaming or solo doesnt matter. All boss-NPCs are the same as anything else you grind. A dragon attacks you suddenly, doesnt matter, it scales to match you anyway. I think one of the absolute cores of this type of game is to grow bigger so you can kill bigger things. Take on larger foes. Etc. You want to remove that? Then what are we left with?
What exactly are we grinding for? Why are we growing? If all NPCs match you no matter your size, your size does not matter at all except in PVP, which currently does not exist more or less.
Re: Scaling NPCs
Honestly I think people and the "norm" of Genesis is and was, to use NPCS to grow, so you could be competitive in Player vs Player conflict. But since that's dead, what's the point of growing or playing?
I remember wanting to get to champ so bad so I could take part in the AA wars back in the day, and actually be useful. Same thing when RDA/BDA fought the Knights. Same thing when I was a Ranger and fought with MMs. Same thing with Vampires vs SCoP.
Since that's all but dead, except for the occasional death of someone using a FBB (hehe) there are no active conflicts.
So in a sense growing is pointless, but its still playing Genesis after work to relax. But I'd still enjoy being able to see different parts of Genesis if I wanted to grind and have that be well used time.
/shrug Out of Ideas and Agruements.
I remember wanting to get to champ so bad so I could take part in the AA wars back in the day, and actually be useful. Same thing when RDA/BDA fought the Knights. Same thing when I was a Ranger and fought with MMs. Same thing with Vampires vs SCoP.
Since that's all but dead, except for the occasional death of someone using a FBB (hehe) there are no active conflicts.
So in a sense growing is pointless, but its still playing Genesis after work to relax. But I'd still enjoy being able to see different parts of Genesis if I wanted to grind and have that be well used time.
/shrug Out of Ideas and Agruements.
Last edited by Alexi on 10 Mar 2011 22:49, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Scaling NPCs
We just need "end point". It's wrong, if you can get more than little progress in 8 hours grinding on violent. If you can - you go grind. If not - to start to do something else or stop playing. Mindless grind is not funny. Why ppls trying to grow bigger? What the goal? To be on first play in plaer rankings? Brilliant. Remove that crappy thing. No rankings anymore. "Oh my god, A-char become bigger than me. I need to go to Terel and grind there". Competition should be not in size, but in other thigs, like gild wars, PvP, teaming or lore knowledge.
Re: Scaling NPCs
ah crap, you got me.Cherek wrote:Tive: All you do is come with silly remarks. Are you Mersereau in disguise?
And you haven't seen half of my silly remarks as they get removed by admins too quickly ;p
http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/