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PvP 
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Rising Hero
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Joined: 20 Mar 2010 11:10
Posts: 350
You can always improvise as you did in past, Cherek ;P

Code:
The young grey-bearded male dwarf charges at Gector in a furious rage, his iron
battleaxe deeply penetrating Gector's left arm.
You try to get a chance to hit him in the stomach.
> Gector tried, but failed to run away.
The massive war boar grazes your right arm with his steel-tipped tusks.
Zyklone attacks the stout fork-bearded male dwarf.
The stout fork-bearded male dwarf says: Iron Delving! To arms!
The stout fork-bearded male dwarf takes a deep breath and blows mightily on
a dwarven warhorn. Its deep sounding is carried into the distance by the
wind.
Shouting out a Solamnian battlecry, Cherek moves to assist Zyklone in attacking
the stout fork-bearded male dwarf.
You feel ready to attack again.
The stout fork-bearded male dwarf roars: You doorknob! What ye think yur do'en?
Gector tried, but failed to run away.
Another day ends as the light withdraws from the land of Krynn.
The young grey-bearded male dwarf takes a mighty swing at Gector's 0, hitting
it with his iron battleaxe!
Birder mumbles: RESCUE GECTOR
Shania breaks out in a sweat as her breathing becomes heavier.
You are feeling very well.
The massive war boar is feeling very well.
The massive war boar is feeling very well.
Gector is barely alive.
Birder is feeling very well.
Elerien is feeling very well.
Shania is feeling very well.
Zodo is feeling very well.
Cherek is slightly hurt.
Vlady is feeling very well.
Zyklone is feeling very well.
The young grey-bearded male dwarf is in a bad shape.
The stout fork-bearded male dwarf is barely alive.
> Gector tried, but failed to run away.
The young grey-bearded male dwarf says: Stop it, you thief!!
Shania works herself into a wild battle rage.
Gector tried, but failed to run away.
Elerien assists Zyklone and attacks the stout fork-bearded male dwarf.
The stout fork-bearded male dwarf says: Iron Delving! To arms!
The stout fork-bearded male dwarf takes a deep breath and blows mightily on
a dwarven warhorn. Its deep sounding is carried into the distance by the
wind.
Zodo seems to have returned to a normal frame of mind.
You prepare to do a roundhouse.
> The young grey-bearded male dwarf says: Stop it, you thief!!
The stout fork-bearded male dwarf charges at Gector in a furious rage, his iron
battleaxe deeply penetrating Gector's left arm.
You try to do a roundhouse but miss.
Gector tried, but failed to run away.
The young grey-bearded male dwarf says: Stop it, you thief!!
Vlady says: CHEREC, RESQUE
The young grey-bearded male dwarf says: Attackers! Summon the clan!
The young grey-bearded male dwarf takes a deep breath and blows mightily on
a dwarven warhorn. Its deep sounding is carried into the distance by the
wind.
Cherek runs toward the young grey-bearded male dwarf, forcing the young grey-
bearded male dwarf to engage in combat with him rather than Gector.
The young grey-bearded male dwarf takes a mighty swing at Cherek's
@@short_desc, hitting it with his iron battleaxe!
@@The ancient two-handed sword wielded by Cherek breaks!!!
The stout fork-bearded male dwarf charges at Gector in a furious rage, his iron
battleaxe deeply penetrating Gector's body.
The stout fork-bearded male dwarf died.
Gector killed him.
You feel calm again.
Gector grunts happily, recording the victory with a notch on his collar.
Gector tried, but failed to run away.
You can't get yourself together to do that.
> You feel ready to attack again.
You jab the massive war boar's body with your impressive bronzed partisan.
The young grey-bearded male dwarf says: Stop it, you thief!!


That's a part of the log from when the game was being moved to the new server, hehe. I think later on even Rauko (Thane then) showed up joined you guys ;)
Code:
Birder mumbles: Anybody else getting the urge to raid the gladiator guild?
Zodo starts to search corpse of a massive war boar.
Cherek laughs merrily.
Zyklone sings: it would be fun
Shania breaks out in a sweat as her breathing becomes heavier.
Cherek nods solemnly.
Birder drools excessively.
Shania works herself into a wild battle rage.
Zodo says: I will defend then =)
Birder mumbles: Wanna head there next?
You drink some of the Gontish grog from the big bottle.
> Zyklone sings: but it's not much to raid
You can't drink any more of the Gontish grog.
Gector chuckles politely.
Zodo smiles happily.
You are feeling rather hurt.
Zyklone is feeling very well.
Gector is terribly hurt.
Birder is feeling very well.
Elerien is feeling very well.
Shania is feeling very well.
Zodo is feeling very well.
Cherek is very hurt.
Vlady is somewhat hurt.
> Cherek says: Just brutus:)
Zyklone sings: lets take something else ..
Zodo says: I will assist brutus then =)
Vlady asks Gector something.
Birder mumbles: Neraka?
Birder burps rudely.
Birder burps rudely.
Birder burps rudely.
Birder burps rudely.
Zyklone sings: Sanction
Zyklone sings: The high lords
Cherek says: sanction and dragonarmy?
Zodo seems to have returned to a normal frame of mind.
Cherek agrees wholeheartedly with Zyklone.
Birder mumbles: how hard are the highlords?
Shania seems to have returned to a normal frame of mind.
Zodo breaks out in a sweat as his breathing becomes heavier.
Cherek says: Not a clue..the dracs hunt though
Zyklone sings: They opened today so i havnt checked yet ;)
Cherek says: killed me
Zodo works himself into a wild battle rage.
Zyklone sings: supposed to be dragons there also
Gector mumbles: DA opened ??
Cherek nods solemnly.
Birder mumbles: how are you supposed to get to the dragonarmy guildhall?
Zyklone sings: they got zingil
Gector whistles appreciatively.
Birder mumbles: i wanna join the DA :))


Ah, actually he left for Kaheda already ;)
Code:
Attack a FELLOW KAHEDAN, the muscular long-bearded male dwarf?!? Please confirm
by trying again.
> You try to get a chance to hit him in the stomach.
> Zyklone nods solemnly at Cherek.
Zyklone assists you and attacks the muscular long-bearded male dwarf.
Birder assists Zyklone and attacks the muscular long-bearded male dwarf.
Cherek says: invite rauko!
You hit the muscular long-bearded male dwarf in the stomach.
He loses his breath for a moment.
You rake the muscular long-bearded male dwarf's body with your impressive
bronzed partisan.
> Your wound in your leg hurts too much! You can't move in that direction!
> Cherek says: leave rauko
You are now hunting the muscular long-bearded male dwarf.
The muscular long-bearded male dwarf leaves northwest.
Your wound in your leg hurts too much! You can't move in that direction!
Cherek goes duhhh.  Must be feeling dumb.

_________________
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12 Mar 2011 17:42
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Hero

Joined: 21 Feb 2011 19:17
Posts: 393
Hi

2 my cc on PvP:
PvP is great, awesome, cool... But sometimes You want to getout guild halls without danger of being killed on ships or for being in RL for 2 minutes.

Personally I'd love PvP to be optional or restricted to specific areas.
If someone want to go and kill and slow pace (this is the only thing he can allow from work), he should get it without danger of loosing guild EQ and stats he gained.

Define areas, define "No PvP" flag, define "PvP protection items". There are plenty of ways to implement it. And then allow total PvP for who really wants it.

This will also protect newbies from being killed from someone testing charge on newbies.


12 Mar 2011 18:08
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
Posts: 2759
Zar: Who is testing charge on newbies? Come on, thats not happening. But, dont underestimate that danger part. I personally got hooked to Genesis alot because of the danger of the world. We should not assume being super friendly towards newbies is the best way to go. We need the evil and the danger too I think. Seing a pfight in Sparkle as a new player would most likely make me think "Hey, this seems like fun". More so than everyone being super nice and helpful and eveyrthing is 100% safe.

As I already said, if you want to be safe you can be. Being murdered and hunted for absolutely no reason while grinding from work is highly unlikely if you play that type of character. But if you play in a PVP guild, you might be hunted. Being able to turn pvp on and off depending on what you feel like today...? No I dont like the idea of areas or flags. What if I go kill Ilrahil in the PVP area, and since he will want revange, I stay in the non pvp areas when he is on. People will only enter when they feel they have an edge etc... nah... better let it be free then. So if you do kill someone or in other ways oppose someone you are NOT safe.

And I think flags will most likely cause trouble as well. Its gonna be a very complicated system. What if MMs protect Haradrims, and you go kill there with your no-pvp flag on. They cant do anything? I can think of tons of similar situations. I think having these types of flags will complicate things and be abused in so many ways and leave tons of work for the aop.

We already have PVP areas and PVP flags. Its called guilds and RP. But I get it you want PVP when its suitable for you, and dont want it when its not. I can get that, me personally I like the illusion of this as a "real" world, where if you do something or join a faction that oppose another, it has consequences. Flags and arenas for PVP takes away that illusion. For me.


12 Mar 2011 18:43
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
Posts: 2759
Tive: Ah, right, the "real" game was on the new server but you could still have fun on the old server right?

So all kinds of evils and goodies joined up to cause havoc. Yeah now I remember. Hehe, first when I saw your log I wondered "What the heck am I doing with them, and why is Vlady asking me to rescue Gector??". But now I get it. Well seems like I managed to save Gector atleast.:P Old logs are fun.

Wish we had a database with them!


12 Mar 2011 18:52
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Joined: 17 May 2010 22:30
Posts: 238
Location: USA
To me Cherek, what I suggested makes more sense.

If you kill Ilrahil, then you can't "un-flag" yourself or escape to a safe non-pvp area. You are flagged until the favor it returned. Doesn't matter where it you are in the realms, your flagged, and that flag has activated the PVP death recovery.

Lets say under that recovery you go and jump and attempt to kill the Nazgul NPC and die. Well you won't be flagged by the MM's now because you died, but you'll suffer a NPC death. But you are still flagged for your PVP death.

The flag isn't something you can shut on and off, or something you can escape. You've committed the crime, you're going to deal with the consequences.

Haradrims though allies of the MM "aren't" MM NPCS like Dunako, the Warden, or the Nazgul. The latter will flag you in a PVP war with that guild, the prior are your gamble to kill when MM's are on.


12 Mar 2011 21:14
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Posts: 2759
Alexi: What if I want to kill someone then? Go on the offensive? I mean how does one get flagged in the first place? How do I the Dragonarmy soldier kill Creed the evil knight? I just cant because he isnt flagged?

So hat you are saying is MMs cant decide to protect the Haradrims anymore? With your suggestion the game code decides what is protected and not, not the players? Am I understanding you correctly?


12 Mar 2011 23:08
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Joined: 17 May 2010 22:30
Posts: 238
Location: USA
Cherek wrote:
Alexi: What if I want to kill someone then? Go on the offensive? I mean how does one get flagged in the first place? How do I the Dragonarmy soldier kill Creed the evil knight? I just cant because he isnt flagged?

So hat you are saying is MMs cant decide to protect the Haradrims anymore? With your suggestion the game code decides what is protected and not, not the players? Am I understanding you correctly?


To go on the offense you just attack someone like you would now. The flag only happens one someone is killed in PVP, hence the recovery (1 fantastic) happens, and that player is now flagged for the guild to retaliate against, or know he has killed someone.


Mages could defend the Haradrim, but killing the Haradrim does not automatically put someone on the MM list like the Nazgul would. The flag is more for the recovery of PVP.


13 Mar 2011 09:09
Profile
Ilrahil wrote:
Just my 2 cc.


back in the days when I wasted time on Gen, I had no issues going into PvP with much bigger enemies then Laurel was ... over years it just came down to be futile :roll:
so I had to stop repeatedly "wiping" Laurel and grow ... and then I got bored, cause every next progress level came longer and longer and ... insanely long

best pfight I ever had, was Laurel+Galen (both Calians) battling Bildor+somePoT around Ithilien
Laurel was champion, Galen was champion, Bildor was quite bigger and so was the PoT
the fight went in baddies favour, then I started to move and the fight changed to our favour

the second best was when Peridot+Zoirenna+Nitramin raided Sanction with their ebony-bladed daggers, drop brawling BDAs and RDAs right and left, sneaking around, gaining weapons for Rangers and forcing DAs to sit out poisons at racks
Laurel was smallfryish, I was quite new to PvP and the outcome was of course 0 dead (Rangers ... you know ...)

years later PvP was NOT as fun anymore - PvP horny bastards inflated the game with their friend-coded items/skills/abilities and their overgrown egos (grind for months unknown in a neutral guild -> swap -> regain size -> get horny!)
I also stopped playing for 8-16 hours/day which quite impacted regaining size after Laurel's wipes

for me back in the days it was much fun to go in with trickster sneak, have a quick battle that forced one or two people to retreat or die and have a backup plan ready in case it would be me

fun encounter: Laurel sent 4 BDAs running around Holm (still remember how Krewl congratulated me to him having a great laugh about it, leading/gathering them around), wielding 2 cleavers, wearing a scale only - sneak around, charge the smallest/most hurt ... and let them hunt around till charge resets ... they'd kill Laurel a gazilion times with the knowledge most players have about Gen/herbs/items/skills/combat by now

then herbs started to play a major role (fu*k*d up white mushrooms that are not even herbed for, but were THE only viable health and mana herbs for a while ... info where to find them: friends only), then armour inflated ... suddenly all things I was grinding didn't give any feasible exp anymore and the only exp available was in places I HAD to wear good armours (change in combat happened meanwhile ...) - this more or less killed Laurel the gladiator trickster (2h combat sucked, cleavers sucked, half-moon axe sucked, no combat layman sucked) who was promised 4 deaths in a row by the former BDA general back in the days :roll: :twisted:

most recent PvP of Laurel was either vamps or MM's or AA's
you can (could have) disarm a vampire who goes all out in darkness ... just to find you didn't harm it enough till it was able to rewield and pulverize you in seconds
you can try and even drop-brawl MM's ... but why would you do that and what would that give you? you can try to blind ... and when your blind misses/missfires you have already some BB on you ...
AA's ... disarm them, blind them ... and they smack your head in (if not Alorrana :twisted: you know I love you) anyway ... and you won't harm them if you don't wield some FBB

hopeless ... just as hopeless as trying to kill big Neidars back in the days when they were the only ones around wearing shields and noone else cared (1st AA closed)
which reminds me of a time when Laurel tried to kill a "Shinto-Buddy" who was wearing a full suit of Terel-armours, wielding a good Terel-axe and munching those idiotic mushrooms like a bunny ... failed of course - herbs and armour did it (tho Laurel wasn't in danger of dying after all this anyway)

summary:
information on the mechanics and items pretty much made PvP in Gen harder by far
+
PvP-horny huge egoed bullies made it less fun
+
no more time to run around for hours achieving nothing (required item not there, no exp gained, enemies not around - rinse/repeat)
=
me no likes, me prefers other things


14 Mar 2011 17:49
Great Adventurer
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 16:40
Posts: 159
Location: Southern California, USA
I grew up in Genesis in the days where PvP was quite common. Back then, it was "normal" to be suddenly attacked for guild affiliation alone, as it was rare that actually war was declared between guilds. I remember being a young knight and attacking vamps and AA. There were even "troublemakers" like Monika who would take joy in attacking (and sometimes slaying) younger, smaller players, but these people were few and far between. These were also the days where death was much harsher and you lost a third of your combat experience when you died. Then again, it was really uncommon to die from PvP as the only crowd control ability was found in the Mystic guild. People usually only died when they were trapped on a long boat ride or if they were poisoned with no rangers around. Back then, PvP fighting was very common, but PvP death was uncommon.

These days things are quite different. PvP is not as common these days. These days when people have a PvP fight, one side has the total intent to kill the other side. Usually this means a completely overwhelming force against a team or player who is completely underpowered and unaware. So PvP fighting is rarer, but the ratios of pfights to deaths is much higher.

I believe this increase in death ratios is actually one factor in people's reactions to PvP. These days, a PvP death ends up sparking more PvP deaths which eventually leads to one guild or group of friends declaring war on another guild or group. This is one of the reasons why I personally try and stay out of PvP. Being a part of the knight leadership for so many years, I've had to clean up lots of BS that is caused by others on both sides, and encountered many assassination attempts and assassinations, usually with a group of 5 or 6 people coming to attack me when I'm alone (and usually when I'm questing).

I always wonder why people think that PvP always needs to end in death. The real challenge and fun in the olden days was in the fact that it was terribly difficult to slay another player of similiar size. The challenge came from the experience of fighting and not actually causing a death. Usually this meant that people avoided fights that were quite unmatched, or if the player attacked, it was just to scare the player off (after a bit of RP and speaking).

Personally, I would be open to more PvP myself if it was less about the killing and more about the fighting. This is the reason why I have made an informal agreement with Ilrahil to open war between guilds in war areas. Not only is it clear where the boundaries are as both guilds are conducting active war within those areas, but also, it's terribly hard to slay anyone there because of the vastness of the area. Even knight block is virtually useless as most rooms have four exits. Also with the nature of the areas, there is a natural offence vs. defence scenario, so both guilds can be the attackers or the defenders at different times.

There were times in the history of Knight / DA relationship where open war was allowed throughout the whole realms of Krynn, meaning that attacks can occur between both guilds just for running into each other, but with the current situation, I'm leery to do this. Usually a change in leadership or membership occurs or someone joins one of the guilds and attacks without any regard and things get out of hand, and war breaks out again, and sometimes things get more complicated when guilds outside of Krynn get involved.

I would be open to this again if the whole of Genesis adopts a general culture for PvP. If a legend or myth encounters a hero of the opposing guild, he or she sould RP a little, which may or may not end up in attack, but larger one should give the smaller one opportunity to retreat, and not just go for the kill or even attack without warning. I think if everyone understood the situation, and abided by a sense of courtesy, PvP could be more common again.

Let me make one more comment before I get off my soapbox: I believe that PvP is a problem for the players to solve themselves. The admin has established some basic rules and guidelines, but if the players don't change the way they treat each other, PvP will always stay as something that drives people from the game rather than bringing people to stay here.

Edited to fix typo.


Last edited by Earth on 14 Mar 2011 19:42, edited 1 time in total.



14 Mar 2011 19:02
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in support to Earth's note: in the pfights I mentioned in my note ... noone died


14 Mar 2011 19:34
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