New Giftgiving Option

[OgreToyBoy]

Still, idling with items was never meant to result in a death as punishment.
You should only be forcefully logged off. Yes, he died and that's that, but do not try to justify the actions
by claiming he deserved it due to idling with items YOU wanted yourself. Wonder if the one looted his
corpse also used an alt to hand over the moss

[Kas]

I love the new option, sort of missed it. Fine addition.

[Booger]

I feel a clarification is needed about this rule:

Code: Select all

  IDLE-BOTTING: Idle-botting occurs when a player uses timed automated
                commands to prevent them from being logged out. Idle-
                botting is ONLY illegal if the player is carrying items
                (wielded/worn or otherwise) that other players might want
                to use. We do not allow living droprooms! (In other
                words, if you want to stay logged on without holding a
                bunch of useful stuff other players might want to use,
                go right ahead.)
      1st offense: Items you are carrying are destroyed.
      2nd offense: 1 week suspension from Genesis (and items destroyed)
      Beyond this: Suspension or deletion as needed.

I thought this was about holding those limited items that can only exist one or a couple at the same time, and with the intent of keeping them unavailable from everyone else. Was I wrong?
What is considered "useful stuff"? Is it about all good items "that other players might want to use"? Is it enough that I'm inactive for a short time with triggers on?

If I'm idling in church for three hours with stuff I've gotten from the Merc chests and own loot, and someone arrives and wants it, should I then be punished (note that death is NOT part of the punishments listed)? What if my link goes down (very common, and since I connect to a computer club and from there to Genesis, I might stay connected with triggers even with link down) and I'm idle for 15 minutes and someone wants the rusty hunting knife or thyme herb I am carrying?
Where is the line drawn?

Note: I'm a goblin! Obviously I have no common sense! I actually thought it was only about those limited items.
And goblins don't mind beating dead horses over and over and over again... before eating them.
Also note: I'm not condemning what was done (except for the usage of a second, which apparently was needed, considering the resulting outrage). Nor do I see a reason for a reimb, but I'll leave that desicion to those in charge.
But I would like to know if my own idling with items is as illegal. I've had characters deleted before, for a number of reasons. And as long as I know why, it's usually ok.

[gorboth]

Correct. You are only guilty of idle-botting if you are holding things that others will want and cannot get because you are keeping them. This might include great stuff taken from a rack, but most importantly it involves those items that have a limited number of copies in the game.

If, for example, Pharaxes was only guilty of idling with equipment purchased from Bubba, or somesuch, there is no problem at all. Common sense, of course, is something I encourage everyone to employ when considering the rules.

G.

[Alorrana]

Common sense, of course, is something I encourage everyone to employ when considering the rules.

G.

Proberly the hardest thing to ask for..

[Kitriana]

Common sense, of course, is something I encourage everyone to employ when considering the rules.

G.

Proberly the hardest thing to ask for..

Considering what my old boss/mentor always claims is common sense... thats a LOT to ask. Sadly.. some people's common sense does not equal other people's common sense.

[Alorrana]

True.. Kit, true..

I know most of the times i dont make sense but i try to apply my common sense in the best way possible. and with my RP too. but as you say, we are all different.

+ We cant all be pleased with the wizards. and they cant please us all.

This gift option, Yes it was a powerful pvp tool that was removed, but in all fairness, it makes totally sense to have it implimented. If anyone here on this forum has actually been in a fight in rl, they will know its impossible for anyone to just hand you a.. lets say 1000 coins, or anything, first of all you wouldnt accept it, because your in a fight, and second, then dude your fighting is proberly using both hes hands.. so he would be unable to give you anything at all.. It actually makes sense to have the option not to just hand a person something.
If its in darkness or its a skilled thief, sure he can slip something in your pack, or pocket, that would make sense to me.
but for a total stranger comming up to you and handling you a jar of Uranium... come on.. would you really just go, Ohh gee thanks.. A jar that hums and radiates with heat, what a nice fella.. I know i sertanly wouldnt.. I dont even accept flyers from those annoying rescue the whales, rescue the trees, Green peace, read peace, save the planet.... You get the point. You always accept what to get from a stranger. (unless in darkness or a skilled thief plants something on you)

I believe when you all think of this, You will see its actually right.. Think about it.. Ok.. or if not go start a brawl with someone and try handing him something in combat, or even just try to give a stranger something unwilling and while hes unaware of it..

Reasons for all this anger is the loss of the tool to kill people Idle. or slip some doom moss into the inventory of another.. and for those who used those tactics, well its a bummer and i understand the anger, but personally, its a most fair change. think about..

[Cherek]

Come on now... we all know with 99% certainty what happened.

1. Pharaxes dont go around with Bubba's items when bot-tanking trolls and other big stuff myths kill. He uses prime equipment others might want.
2. He was dropped off in the Sparkle chrurch because whoever was leading him had to go and decided to "drop him somewhere safe". The common practice when you're dragging around someone who is idle. Raise your hand if you have never have dropped off someone idle, or been dropped off idle yourself, somewhere, at some point.
3. The actual player Pharaxes was most likely far away from his computer when all this happened.

Someone killed him fair and square using features available in the game.

Now, you can CHANGE that feature. Fine. I dont like the change, but I can understand it. Change it if you want, but removing the kill, no that really bothers me. I just cant see how Pharaxes ended up as the victim here.

Pharaxes is running on triggers alot from what I heard and seen myself. He broke the rules. I think its great if players take things like this into their own hands instead of mailing the admin. If you see someone botting/idling, why not kill him using a way you can? Save admin some work. And bigger chance of catching him.

So yes Alorrana, "what happened happened". He was killed, but he had it coming. End of story. Or it should have been.

But it wasnt? Considering how the discussion has been going it seems quite obvious he was restored. The only one who actually did something WRONG according to our rules was the one who ended up winning. The one who killed him got the joy of killing a botter taken away, and a PVP-fun ability that has been around basically forever was taken away. And Pharaxes can contunue running on triggers.

Sorry AoP (or Goborth rather) I think you messed up on this one.

However.... HOWEVER, on the other hand I always thought the botting/idling rule was silly and that the wizards should focus on making the game funnier so people dont wanna bot, instead of hunting botters. What I find even more odd is that you say that players SHOULD NOT help you hunt the botters, but instead give you, the wizards more work.

IMHO, the only thing (exept making the game more fun) that would help against botting would be that WE, the players actually said NO. Its not okay. And that would mean not teaming with those who bot, not accepting people running on triggers while AFK for a long time in your team, and hunting down and killing botters you see. But no... the AOP does not want us enforcing the rules.

I think we could have a much greater chance of getting a game with less botting if players showed the botters that its not okay. The chance of one or two wizards on some botting-hunt actually succeeding sounds to me very very slim...

A real-life example: Here in Stockholm alot of people ride the subway for free, while others pay. The monthy fee for riding the subway is 690 SEK. If you ride for free, and get caught, you get a fine of about 1.200 SEK (I think). So even if you do get caught a few times every year, you still save more money from riding it for free than paying.

Its the same here, if a few wizards are going to hunt botters, even if they get caught and get killed, they earn more from botting anyway. Now you could increase the penalty severly. Deletion for the first offence perhaps? Well then you will most likely get a lot of player leaving the game for good at best. Not good. What is needed is a change in the mind of the botters, and the only ones who can get them to change their mind is their co-players.

[OgreToyBoy]

Ok Cherek, since you are a botter and I know it you will die.. over and over and over and over.
Proof? Is it not enough I know you are or some random Yahoo told me you were?
I'm sure you will understand my point after your third death or so.

Yes, I disslike those vigilante ideas as people continue to say I'm a bot and I don't feel like
getting ganked for some jealous retard think I get fabolous xp in Kabal.

[Cherek]

Ok Cherek, since you are a botter and I know it you will die.. over and over and over and over.
Proof? Is it not enough I know you are or some random Yahoo told me you were?
I'm sure you will understand my point after your third death or so.

Yes, I disslike those vigilante ideas as people continue to say I'm a bot and I don't feel like
getting ganked for some jealous retard think I get fabolous xp in Kabal.

Uh.. whoever killed him obviously saw him idling. Isnt that proof enough? Even the fact that vampiric moss killed him is proof enough he was indeed idle.

But yeah, you can kill anyone you want. Over a rumour or not.