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Discipline - The red-headed stepchild stat 
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Expert

Joined: 19 Oct 2010 19:23
Posts: 255
(with no disrespect to red-heads or stepchildren)

Seems like dis is relatively useless after a certain point. Once you can attack all you want to, what good is it? Can it be made more useful in a reasonable way?! Is it truly 'all that' and maybe I don't understand it?! Who has an opinion?!


04 Jul 2011 19:26
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some specials/features/items work better with dis ... supposedly :roll:


04 Jul 2011 19:35
Champion
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Joined: 05 Mar 2010 11:36
Posts: 610
You need Dis for titles in an evil fighter-guild located in Middle-Earth.
Also Laurel were right about the other thing.. that Rangers suck.


04 Jul 2011 19:38
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Apprentice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2011 13:46
Posts: 39
A high discipline used to help against losing your concentration when casting spells while being hit by enemies, which made discipline quite useful for spellcasters.

This seems to have changed at some point though and I actually cant remember the last time Zingil lost his concentration while fighting.

-Zingil's player


04 Jul 2011 19:44
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OgreToyBoy wrote:
Also Laurel were right about the other thing.. that Rangers suck.


did you spank more than just Laurel? :lol:

Zingil wrote:
I actually cant remember the last time Zingil lost his concentration while fighting.

-Zingil's player


Laurel did - quite recently and the enemies weren't quite overhelming or anything ... and I guess immo dis ain't that much smaller than Z's ;)


04 Jul 2011 19:49
Expert

Joined: 19 Oct 2010 19:23
Posts: 255
I've lost concentration while fighting, but if dis actually helps it could be useful for spellcasters.

I think the issue would be the opportunity cost of training dis for an undetermined benefit in concentration versus something a bit more concrete like dex or con. After all, spellcasters need to avoid getting hit or be able to hang out long enough to fight like everyone else. ;-)


04 Jul 2011 20:02
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Wanderer
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Joined: 26 Apr 2010 15:05
Posts: 60
Location: Huntsville, Alabama - USA
There's that whole panic level thing, which I've always assumed is linked to discipline, but I've never felt that mechanic is used very much.

I'd like to see panic used more frequently in the game. Attacks of intimidation and fear, dazes and disables (battlecries, spells, roars, etc), that increase panic and make characters momentarily freeze, or flee prematurely. Attacks that are better handled by those with high discipline.


04 Jul 2011 22:40
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Myth
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Joined: 09 Mar 2010 20:33
Posts: 1331
Location: UK
Took the words right out of my mouth.
Panic could be used a lot more.

Unless you are fighting inside a few special areas, have a certain poison in your system or forget to wield a weapon players will very rarely wimpy from panic.
When you do wimpy from panic you are like what the hell I am wimpying, but I am fvw.
When you do damage against your target you recover panic levels.
So if you did find yourself panicing you could go an massacre tiny npcs to feel more secure.

But yes this is rare so what effect does dis have on large players.
Very little, Bravery is on the whole over-rated in T's opinion.
Low dis when small keeps you from attacking things you shouldn't. And is just mildly annoying when large.
A classic case is Barash Gund or whatever he is called the AA troll in ME.
I think you need Epic/Imm Dis to attack, which could be a little ways off even for someone large, since most focus on other stats. He is higher than what is needed for the Balrog I think, not sure about Rulcaraz think those are the big 3.

If you don't have that there are of course ways around it.
If a Calian is invloved once one is attacked they could bring anyone they like into the fight.
Knights also get a dis bonus for their team.
Sword users can wield two of the certain longsword for a really large boost (it has a moderate skill requirement ruling out those without sword skill from some guild but possibly a racial). Some other equipment does too but not as noticeably.
Herbs can be used as well. (I think even with the time based limitations it is possible to raise your dis a full level or close to that with herb use)

So there are a few options for the cunning to get around it an attack a npc without having the base dis for it. I'd still say Knight + Calian teamed has the biggest dis check bypass possibilities imo.

But if someone did not have the dis to attack themselves should they not immediately panic once the Calian moves behind them? Or it you buff your dis to attack then immediately drop it again to use your normal equipment should this have a negative effect?

I like the Knight team boost to dis.
All standing side by side in full armour feeling invincible.
Makes sense.
But that should then also makes sense for hordes of goblins, soldiers in Armies etc.

And if you wimpy the Knight would the benefit not be reversed.
"What we are not invincible?!" PANIC!!!

Every team could have its own "panic" setting, its Morale.
Would be cool if on one person wimpying the team's morale has a chance to crack.
Causing all to panic wimpy.
But there is a "rally" command which costs a little mana and auto moves everyone back to the one who made the rallying call.
ie
Tarax is team leader
Tarax wimpys.
The team scatters.
Alorrana shouts: "FOR ANGMAR, Rally to my Call!"
(heard for a couple of rooms away)
Leadership of team is transferred to Alorrana.
All who hear can use command rally to automove to Alorrana.
Team is intact once more but with less Morale.

Would be interesting at places like the Yeti.

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05 Jul 2011 19:09
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Adept
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Joined: 03 Mar 2011 20:15
Posts: 134
Increasing the specific and direct applications of panic could be interesting.

In so far as I think of DIS as a measure of your ability to keep your metaphorical sh... stuff together under adverse conditions, it could factor into almost anything. If there was a linear progression or a more reasonable curve, describing the negative impact on various activities or other checks while being less than full of health, mana or fatigue, DIS should offset those penalties. This would have to be somehow in proportion to your other stats, in order to make this not a simple penalty on the small or a bonus for the large.

These effects could be direct or pumped through panic.

Depending on how this is tuned, this could easily make DIS stat 1B, and possibly be dialed to make DIS of average or interesting importance.

...and then we can get back to discussing how Wisdom is the 'W' in WTF.

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Any meaning you ascribe to them is most likely due to lucky happenstance or your misinterpretation.

If you'd prefer Strider's opinion, you'll probably have to ask for it in game.


05 Jul 2011 23:50
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Wanderer
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Joined: 12 Jun 2010 21:56
Posts: 72
Wisdom is used in some specials and also partially in determining spell strength for caster guilds.

Aside from that, your guess is as good as mine.

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07 Jul 2011 03:25
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