Deconstruction of the never-ending MMORPG

Discuss general game topics or anything else that doesn't fit in the other forums
Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.
Arcon

Re: Deconstruction of the never-ending MMORPG

Post by Arcon » 04 Nov 2011 12:16

You never wondered why 2/3 of the players are grinders? What happened with all the other players? We used to be around 100 people at the same time, now there are around 30 players and no rotation, just the same people all the time.

What happend was that because of the new mortal titles, more stats levels and all the grinding places some people, grinders, started to grow so much more then the rest of the population and getting so much more "power" then everyone else. This in its turn made all the players that did not mindless grind leave because they could not keep up. Roleplay is all very good but why should you stay and do it if you loose on doing it? Why shouldn't you just change game to one where you won't end up on the loosing end for roleplaying?

btw, those 20 "power-grinders" are just like NPC to me, I don't interact with them, I just see their names on the who list and I see them run around. Not much more. Sorry, they add nothing to the game in my opinion.

Makfly
Champion
Posts: 608
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 00:36

Re: Deconstruction of the never-ending MMORPG

Post by Makfly » 04 Nov 2011 12:47

arcon wrote:You never wondered why 2/3 of the players are grinders? What happened with all the other players? We used to be around 100 people at the same time, now there are around 30 players and no rotation, just the same people all the time.

What happend was that because of the new mortal titles, more stats levels and all the grinding places some people, grinders, started to grow so much more then the rest of the population and getting so much more "power" then everyone else. This in its turn made all the players that did not mindless grind leave because they could not keep up. Roleplay is all very good but why should you stay and do it if you loose on doing it? Why shouldn't you just change game to one where you won't end up on the loosing end for roleplaying?

btw, those 20 "power-grinders" are just like NPC to me, I don't interact with them, I just see their names on the who list and I see them run around. Not much more. Sorry, they add nothing to the game in my opinion.
Sorry I do not have much to add, but only to say that I agree with everything you wrote.
Well put, arcon.
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

Amberlee
Myth
Posts: 1496
Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: Deconstruction of the never-ending MMORPG

Post by Amberlee » 04 Nov 2011 14:07

Yeah i pretty much agree with what Arcon said here too.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

User avatar
Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 3135
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: Deconstruction of the never-ending MMORPG

Post by Cherek » 04 Nov 2011 14:50

I think the reasons we have a smaller population now then before are many. Not one change or lack of change is responsible. Not one person, or one type of player. Allthough the reasons Arcon suggest are similar to what I personally would _guess_ are some pretty big reasons.

But the question is, how do we turn this around?

Uther: Why would 20 people leave because an alternative to the current grinding was introduced? I think the idea of a form of "bosses" (that I and others have suggested many times in the past) is a great idea.

Its not like you would not have your grinding, but those who dont like it so much would also have a way to grow. Not better or worse than yours, just different. I dont see why you would need to leave? Would you not like it if the game interested more people?

User avatar
Rhaegar
Legend
Posts: 960
Joined: 13 May 2010 06:22

Re: Deconstruction of the never-ending MMORPG

Post by Rhaegar » 04 Nov 2011 16:41

The problem with bosses is that you can't have all that many of them. Then you get all the people in the game competing for them, resulting in some teams just moving from boss to boss or people camping for a respawn.

I wonder how would people react if the best gear in the game would be only obtainable through crafting and cooperation. Craft guild x gets item p, then you take item p to craft guild y which can use it to craft item q, which in turn can get more powerful thanks to craft guild z.

That's something I'd like to see in the game. A different kind of grind, one that doesn't make you bigger but remains rewarding.
I fear no evil for I am fear incarnate.

User avatar
Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 3135
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: Deconstruction of the never-ending MMORPG

Post by Cherek » 04 Nov 2011 17:53

Well you cant just add a Yeti x 10. Need to be some creative thinking behind it. It would need to be some type of randomly changing repeatable quest involved perhaps? AGet this and that first, etc. You need anti-this, anti that. This type of damage, that weapon... well who knows. Something. So its new every time. And perhaps instanced for each new team who attempts it.

Greywolf
Adventurer
Posts: 97
Joined: 30 Mar 2010 04:25

Re: Deconstruction of the never-ending MMORPG

Post by Greywolf » 04 Nov 2011 19:27

arcon wrote:
Rhaegar wrote:Those who love to grind should get something too in my opinion. Some other forms of reward instead of xp. I know that there are enchantments now but perhaps something like extra titles, repeatable grind quests that give you cool gear etc.
Just to make it a bit more mindless or becoming a grind for the sake of grind and just growing bigger.

Why? When did the game reward roleplayers or other people that don't like to grind? Given them any extra titles? Abilities to kill grinders easier? Cool items? The game has done NOTHING for them. Genesis has punished the people that don't want to grind. And that is what has destroyed Genesis.
I agree 100%

Greywolf
Adventurer
Posts: 97
Joined: 30 Mar 2010 04:25

Re: Deconstruction of the never-ending MMORPG

Post by Greywolf » 04 Nov 2011 19:35

Uther wrote:
arcon wrote:Why not change the whole idea of xp and grinding. Make stupid grinding useless, you shouldn't learn from killing the same orc/troll/elf 1000 times. Lower that kind for xp.
Instead make it so you get a lot more xp against "bosses". I would like to see that you get a slight prog from ONE kill only, but to get that kill you might have to collect a team of 3 or 4 people from different teams or different specializations, plan the tactics, slay the guards and then attack the boss and still have the chance of death. That kill took you one hour or more to plan and execute, a lot more fun hour then any stupid grinding hour.
Hello ??? wanna get 20 of the playerbase to leave ???
You are right. Now is not the time for a stat cap. But not implementing a stat cap years ago is the reason 20 people leaving today would seriously hurt the game now. My guess is, over the years, hundreds of people have stopped playing because of the game dynamics created by not having a stat cap.

Greywolf
Adventurer
Posts: 97
Joined: 30 Mar 2010 04:25

Re: Deconstruction of the never-ending MMORPG

Post by Greywolf » 04 Nov 2011 19:37

arcon wrote:You never wondered why 2/3 of the players are grinders? What happened with all the other players? We used to be around 100 people at the same time, now there are around 30 players and no rotation, just the same people all the time.

What happend was that because of the new mortal titles, more stats levels and all the grinding places some people, grinders, started to grow so much more then the rest of the population and getting so much more "power" then everyone else. This in its turn made all the players that did not mindless grind leave because they could not keep up. Roleplay is all very good but why should you stay and do it if you loose on doing it? Why shouldn't you just change game to one where you won't end up on the loosing end for roleplaying?

btw, those 20 "power-grinders" are just like NPC to me, I don't interact with them, I just see their names on the who list and I see them run around. Not much more. Sorry, they add nothing to the game in my opinion.
Yup.

Uther
Great Adventurer
Posts: 182
Joined: 11 Aug 2010 12:51

Re: Deconstruction of the never-ending MMORPG

Post by Uther » 04 Nov 2011 20:27

Cherek wrote: Uther: Why would 20 people leave because an alternative to the current grinding was introduced? I think the idea of a form of "bosses" (that I and others have suggested many times in the past) is a great idea.
Because Arcon wrote .. Why not change the whole idea of xp and grinding. Make stupid grinding useless, you shouldn't learn from killing the same orc/troll/elf 1000 times. Lower that kind for xp.

Oh I shouldn't learn... Perhaps we shall change the learning skill as we are at it as well ...
someone that swings his "weapons" against a foe 3 000 000 times compared to a person that just chit chats should
make sheez kebab of the chit chatter and should be more skilled in defending and taking down foes.

And for the record ... it is not the same orc/troll/elf .. it's new ones :P
All comments are made by the player behind Uther, NOT THE CHARACTER UTHER!

Post Reply
http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/