Evil guilds, more or less folded?

[Alorrana]

I agree, we have some utter loyal players around. thats right, but when they also are beginning to leave.. then where do we go..

We need to keep the core going, and still make it known as you say, and more easy to play, and give players more rewards than punishments.

[Kas]

What if the penalties of brute didn't kick in until you reach X size?

[Zar]

Hi

Maybe I will tell why I stopped playing Genesis and started playing another mud:
1. Quests - I confess I am bad quester. Really very bad. And without quest files (YEAH!!!) I would be maybe veteran or even lower. And I don't enjoy questing. Where did You see that powerful warrior should go and help every f***ing person in the world.

2. Guilds
2a. Application process: You like idea of being X. Not idea becoming X pupil for half an year.
2b. Most of the guilds are quite the same. Weapon skill, special one/special two c'est tout. (I never was in magic guild, except necromancers)
2c. Your power more or less depend only on your stats. (Recently it start to depend on guild stat, which can be raised fast by multiple death and some friends)

3. Lack of common comunication - when you out there grinding/fighting, it is BORING. And I want to socialize or just shout "GO SUNS!!!" when my favourite team wins.

Because of that, I turned from Genesis to another mud, where:
quests are optional (there are bonuses if quest a lot),
all guilds are free to join, very different (in mechanics) and depend on guild stat equally as on general stats (to reach high-end You must invest of about 2-3 years)
and multiple chatlines

I know that my vision may differ from others and it cannot change Genesis.
But this is my 2 cc.

I think that I will return only when quests will stop be a problem:
or questing optional or sharing quest xp between seconds.

[Kas]

I'd say, make questing optional aswell. Make something else questxp can be used for.

[Laurel]

EQ loosing on each logout wouldn't be half that bad if not for the simple thing, that without a decent set of eq you can more or less do ... NOTHING combat related. You can argue about monks and MM's here (ogres need how many hours of head collecting to get to top?) but for the most part of Gen this logic applies.

Especially since exp calculation was changed years ago and to get exp, you need to hit bigger thingies. Those thingies in return have been modified with "natural" armour/resistancies/skills (from "skin-ac" to "blindfighting/parry/defence skills ... or even infravision ... for all mobs!").

So when you log in and have nothing ... you rather log out and play something else, than go try to hunt eq for hours, that (IF you even find anything fancy!) will be lost when you log out again and you won't be able to put to use on any exp-grind. This has been addressed with saving racks to some extent ... but it was more polishing, than fixing.

Questing wouldn't be half that bad if not for idiotic syntaxes and level of stupidity not being reflected in the reward for solving it. I mean there are tons of quests that take ages to figure out or just to be lucky, that reward you with ... maybe similar level as kiosk ones.

[Ashur]

Hi

Maybe I will tell why I stopped playing Genesis and started playing another mud:
1. Quests - I confess I am bad quester. Really very bad. And without quest files (YEAH!!!) I would be maybe veteran or even lower. And I don't enjoy questing. Where did You see that powerful warrior should go and help every f***ing person in the world.

2. Guilds
2a. Application process: You like idea of being X. Not idea becoming X pupil for half an year.
2b. Most of the guilds are quite the same. Weapon skill, special one/special two c'est tout. (I never was in magic guild, except necromancers)
2c. Your power more or less depend only on your stats. (Recently it start to depend on guild stat, which can be raised fast by multiple death and some friends)

3. Lack of common comunication - when you out there grinding/fighting, it is BORING. And I want to socialize or just shout "GO SUNS!!!" when my favourite team wins.

Because of that, I turned from Genesis to another mud, where:
quests are optional (there are bonuses if quest a lot),
all guilds are free to join, very different (in mechanics) and depend on guild stat equally as on general stats (to reach high-end You must invest of about 2-3 years)
and multiple chatlines

I know that my vision may differ from others and it cannot change Genesis.
But this is my 2 cc.

I think that I will return only when quests will stop be a problem:
or questing optional or sharing quest xp between seconds.

I stopped playing in the past because of these reasons, also. Granted I'm, more or less, back now, but I'm getting worn out by these same things already. I think we all understand that we can't change the game every time someone wants something and I think we also all understand that people stop playing games every day.

Not to derail too much, but I really think that the requirements for joining the Magic guilds are just plain retarded. I don't know how else to put it. It's absolution moronic the amount of time that is required of an apprentice/pupil/squire/etc just to join a freaking guild. I understand some of the rational that is placed behind it, but it takes months of time to join some of these guilds .... and this is a game. Not to mention, some guilds (Neidar) are/were just a friends club, if you aren't in that group of friends, don't even bother trying to join.

Back on topic, the fact of the matter is that Genesis is incredibly demanding. We can argue back and forth whether or not that's a good thing all day, but it's still a fact. The newbie zone has gone a long way to reduce the learning curve involved in Genesis but .... even as a Rising Hero I feel like I can't do anything. Rising Hero ... that's about halfway through the mortal levels right? I'm about, what, 2 mortal levels above the OLD max?

It took a combined 26 days to reach where I am right now. Think about how much time that really is. Let's even cut off a week to account for idle time. 19 days. 19 days. 19 DAYS! That's 456 hours of play time. I'm not even close to being fully leveled. I can't think of any other game that require that much time.

I'm not complaining about the "lost" time, I play this game because it's a great distraction at work while I have a few free moments in between compiling code, etc. But, look at these numbers through the eyes of someone who has no idea what Genesis has to offer. If someone told me, or even suggested, that Skyrim would take almost 500 hours to reach the halfway point ... there's no way in hell I'd ever pick up the game. If I started playing Diablo 3 and, after 52 hours of play time, was level 4 ... I'd quit. What's the point?

Hypothetically, imagine what else I could have done with over 400 hours of time. Let's just assume I could do anything with that time. In 400 hours, you can do 2 play throughs of Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning to 100% completion in that time, and still have time left over. Most Final Fantasy games can be "100%" completed in less than 150 hours.

That all being said, I love Genesis. I can just see why a new person might join, play for a short time, and then leave.

[Kas]

Ashur, speaking for the MM's recruitment policy, you simply need to be of an acceptable race, alignment and enter Minas Morgul (I think you need disagreeable in alignment or something) and simply write and send an application to the Nine from the postoffice. That's the only requirement the guild have.

You are then taken in as a seeker within minutes to approximately a day of waiting, and seekers usually physically join the guild a week or two later. I think the average waitingtime for an applicant to be put in the grinder is measured in minutes...not even hours these days.

From there, everything lies on your shoulders if you truly want to become a full mage or not.

Not exactly hard, hm?

[Ashur]

Ashur, speaking for the MM's recruitment policy, you simply need to be of an acceptable race, alignment and enter Minas Morgul (I think you need disagreeable in alignment or something) and simply write and send an application to the Nine from the postoffice. That's the only requirement the guild have.

You are then taken in as a seeker within minutes to approximately a day of waiting, and seekers usually physically join the guild a week or two later. I think the average waitingtime for an applicant to be put in the grinder is measured in minutes...not even hours these days.

From there, everything lies on your shoulders if you truly want to become a full mage or not.

Not exactly hard, hm?

I really didn't want to get too off-topic with this, but I disagree. MM, specifically, thrives on technicality in this.

Yes, technically, an applicant is accepted and joined within a short time. However, this does not give you much of anything. I struggle to not give away anything and still make a point here, but I will try. I know that the PoT are similar to MM in that once you are accepted into the lowest ranks of the guild, you are not "really" a member. You are a slave to do "their" bidding. This is where the whole process becomes a tad ridiculous. I get the feeling that it's a 'shit rolls downhill' mentality in MM, specifically. Those in the highest ranks had to wade through the bullshit when they first joined, so therefore everyone else does as well. This process weeds out those who need to be weeded, I suppose, but it's hard to claim that "everything lies on your shoulders" when such as a system exists.

Overall, my opinion is that a video game should fit within the constraints of your life. I should be able to live my real life as I desire, and accomplish something within a video game during the time I have. However, Genesis is so time demanding that it can sometimes require that you plan your real life activities around the game. Once we start talking about the guilds with specific join requirements or applicant training processes, it get's a little out of hand.

"Punishments" are handed down arbitrarily. Rewards are seldom given. Restrictions are put in place to prevent growth. As I said, there is a rational placed behind this but I tend to disagree with it. I've heard that the Knights are quite similar, too. Hours upon hours of "studying" in the library and no 'action'. Ranger "apprentices" would take almost a full year to become full Rangers at one point. The spellcasting guilds don't even provide any combat abilities until higher ranks from my understanding. The most powerful of guilds should be the most difficult to join, yes. However, I believe the progression should be less player-handled and a bit more coded. I would truly like to see a system where progression does truly lie on the shoulders of the member, the only way that can really be accomplished is to remove the the 'mentor' position.


Again, all that being said, I understand that there is a method to the madness. I contend that the madness be reduced to a point such that the method is more inviting to outsiders without pandering to the "whiners." This balance is not easy to find, and requires a player-base .... perhaps therein lies the problem? We need players to find the right balance, but we need some kind of balance to find players.

[Cherek]

Ashur/Kas: Actually I think its almost too easy these days. In most guilds, not MM perhaps. But guilds that used to require something no longer does. Must guilds are basically just walk up and join. Me, I think the whole fun with Genesis was that part. Interacting with other players, trying to play a role. Live by the standards of the guild. Being a knight used to mean something. Now most guilds are just different ways of grinding...

So as you say Ashur, different things are considered "fun" for different kind of people. Every time a guild "lowers" the requirements to join, I feel like another part of the game dies. I can very much see how many people feel it takes too much time, its "too hard", etc. I do. But as I've said on this topic before, I think it most likely is easier to attract people who may like the game we have, than to do fundamental changes, and then hope to attract another type of player. I am completely certain, since I enjoy what we have now, there are at least a couple of thousands in the world who does too. I seriously doubt I am that unique...

Of course it may be harder to find these people than the more "mainstream" players. But thats a choice Gorboth has to make. Which game are we promoting and to which type of people. The important thing is that we make that choice and make an effort to find the people who may like it.

As for doing tasks without action. I surely understand Ashur, but myself I enjoy that part as progression rather than just go out and grind and gain a title in your guild. Its just same old grind, for many by scripts, while at work. I rather play 2 hours where I really play, with people who also actually are there, than a whole day of background-scripting while I do something else.

[Laurel]

Ranger "apprentices" would take almost a full year to become full Rangers at one point.

How pre-ancient history are we talking about here?

Wed Dec 14 2011: X took the test for entrance
Fri Dec 30 2011: X sanctioned to apply to the Y company
Fri Jan 6 2012: X joined Y company
Mon Jan 30 2012: X added to the Y council

X is so far (lower) than rising hero, that I had to check "levels mortal" in Gen to have an idea myself