New potential feature: please vote

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Should the <combatshare> feature be implemented in Genesis?

Yes.
15
42%
No.
21
58%
 
Total votes: 36

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gorboth
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New potential feature: please vote

Post by gorboth » 28 Aug 2012 23:59

In the Common Board section, a thread has been debating ways to control for players who use scripts that ruin gameplay for others. Here was one idea that was proposed.

Gorboth would see:

Code: Select all

A large open field in the Shire. You see mountains in the west and a stream to the north.

Obvious exits: west, north, east.
A lanky wolf and Draugor are fighting eachother.

> kill wolf
The wolf is already in combat with Draugor, so you'll have to wait to see if you're welcome to join in.
Draugor signals for you to join in the fight.
You attack the lanky wolf!
Draugor would see:

Code: Select all

The lanky wolf swipes at your knee with its right claw, but misses.
You batter the lanky wolf with your maul.
Gorboth arrives.
The lanky wolf snaps at your head with its jaws, but misses.
Gorboth looks like he wants to join the fight. You can <combatshare> to allow this.
> combatshare gorboth
You signal for Gorboth to join in the fight.
Gorboth attacks the lanky wolf!
The mechanic would require that the combatant be in the room with the npc in question, so you would not be able to run around an area, attacking everything and leaving it with you tagged as the only person who could fight it. It would only work on npcs you are currently in the room with, fighting. With this in mind, let's vote on the issue. What I understand so far:

Pros:
  • This would mean once you are fighting an npc, bots could not steal your kill.
Cons:
  • This would mean that you could not use kill-stealing as a legitimate form of aggression against your enemies in the game.
If we all seem to agree by the end of this, I will code it up and ask Mercade to implement.
G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

Draugor
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Re: New potential feature: please vote

Post by Draugor » 29 Aug 2012 00:02

The problem is that this doesent actually solve the problem, so what if a bot misses one or two kills? Hell they can go at it 24/7 no probs.
"Assist <name>" already exists so...

Also, its WAY to easy to make a trigger to invite whoever arrives or is fighting a mob in a room when you enter

Makfly
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Re: New potential feature: please vote

Post by Makfly » 29 Aug 2012 00:14

I voted yes.
But I would also say that if it is something that will take you a very long time to code, your time and efforts are perhaps better spent somewhere else.
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

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gorboth
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Re: New potential feature: please vote

Post by gorboth » 29 Aug 2012 01:07

Draugor wrote:The problem is that this doesent actually solve the problem, so what if a bot misses one or two kills? Hell they can go at it 24/7 no probs.
"Assist <name>" already exists so...
I think this is where it is important to understand what the problem actually is. If the problem we are trying to solve is that bots can automate their growth, yes this does not solve that. If the problem is that bots ruin gameplay for people by stealing their kills, does this not, indeed, solve it?
Draugor wrote:Also, its WAY to easy to make a trigger to invite whoever arrives or is fighting a mob in a room when you enter
Huh? I don't know what you mean here at all. The mechanic is to prevent kill stealing. The feature itself is all about inviting players to be allowed to kill if you want them to be allowed to. I wonder, Draugor, if the idea I have presented is too difficult to understand. Do I need to clarify it?

G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

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gorboth
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Re: New potential feature: please vote

Post by gorboth » 29 Aug 2012 01:08

Makfly wrote:I voted yes.
But I would also say that if it is something that will take you a very long time to code, your time and efforts are perhaps better spent somewhere else.
The coding would be trivial. Very easy to create.

G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

Laurel

Re: New potential feature: please vote

Post by Laurel » 29 Aug 2012 08:55

I voted no, because it would be another command, that I'd want to automate to a certain degree. Just simply disallowing non-team-members to attack that mob would be enough, to address that excessive kill-stealing some people whine about (and some made it their excuse to kill others). If you want someone to participate in the kill - invite her/him/it.

I also voted no, because it solves nothing related to botting. It would be just a hot-fix to address 2-5 whiners (rather big chars, grinders) vs 2-5 scripters (rather big chars, grinders). It brings NOTHING to the game for other players, who don't race others for TTrolls/Mithas/Quali/whatever else is there.

Besides - just get yourself a mittikna with enough darkness and you will have enough to stop almost anyone from kill-stealing you. The mechanics is there for you. Use it to it's full extent, whiner.

Oh and btw. for the record:
> obviously I don't decline exp-trains with Irk, cause he's a great tank
> I don't approve of Irk's triggers, because I find them poorly coded (kill-stealing, getting himself killed, etc.) and he refuses to update them just because of his laziness, which led us to several discussions over the years
> I can't say I am at the screen 100% - Genesis usually takes several hours to play, during which I usually make myself something to eat/drink, feed the cat, clean the space around me, make bio-breaks, etc. ... actually even combat in Genesis is a tad boring (like grinding in WoW or Aion was/is), so I also play some www-games at the same time; don't even tell me I should be 100% focused on executing the gazylionth special, killing the 100th draconian
> there is a reason MUD-clients offer what they do, don't you think?

Makfly
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Re: New potential feature: please vote

Post by Makfly » 29 Aug 2012 08:56

Could the 4 other people who voted no, perhaps chip in with their reasons why they voted no?
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

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Tive
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Re: New potential feature: please vote

Post by Tive » 29 Aug 2012 10:25

Because, as usual, admins are missing the point and want to add something that is not necessary and does not solve a problem of botting which I believe was the main topic of the discussion.


On the other hand, i don't give a damn.
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Cherek
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Re: New potential feature: please vote

Post by Cherek » 29 Aug 2012 13:43

I voted no as well.

I never felt the real problem with botting was the kill-stealing. A part of the problem is that they grow big, but for me thats not the main problem either. I think the main problem is that they are not responsive to communication which makes the game feel dead... botting teams running around not interacting to anyone kinda destroys the illusion that the characters you meet actually are RP-ing characters... Knowing that most people you meet are not really playing, but are at work, or watching a movie etc just makes the game feel dull to me.

If someone happens to steal a kill now and then really isnt such a big issue for the one who loses the kill. What's one or two trolls among thousands? Not much.

Also, most scripts have a simple check to see if someone is already fighting in the room and move on, so this command would only apply to a really small group of unsofisticated botters. Also, if they do happen you steal your kill you actually get a good excuse to kill them. Just killing them because you suspect they are botting you probably wont do, but if they repeatedly steal your kills you're much more likely to go after and kill them since then you have a real reason to. That might even help in stopping their botting behavior, or at least set them back some. Might even get them to interact some, wanting to get back at their killer. Adding this command would imho _HELP_ the botters rather than anything else since they would no longer accidently kill someone else's prey, thus not get hunted down for it, which would also remove one of few reasons to interact these days. Much of our pfighting today I think at some point started with someone's script stealing kills... I definitely know a few characters who's been killed for it fairly recently.

Finally, like Gorboth said, you would remove a way for a smaller player to annoy a bigger one. That is, steal their kills. If you're smaller than someone you dislike you can at least annoy them by stealing kills, even if you can't attack them directly.

Draugor
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Re: New potential feature: please vote

Post by Draugor » 29 Aug 2012 15:57

Cherek wrote:
Also, most scripts have a simple check to see if someone is already fighting in the room and move on, so this command would only apply to a really small group of unsofisticated botters. Also, if they do happen you steal your kill you actually get a good excuse to kill them. Just killing them because you suspect they are botting you probably wont do, but if they repeatedly steal your kills you're much more likely to go after and kill them since then you have a real reason to. That might even help in stopping their botting behavior, or at least set them back some. Might even get them to interact some, wanting to get back at their killer. Adding this command would imho _HELP_ the botters rather than anything else since they would no longer accidently kill someone else's prey, thus not get hunted down for it, which would also remove one of few reasons to interact these days. Much of our pfighting today I think at some point started with someone's script stealing kills... I definitely know a few characters who's been killed for it fairly recently.

And killing someone that botted himself up to an average of freakishness is a very easy task thankfully :P Especially when they are in lets say... neidar whom are close to unkillable, especially when they have a trigger to run home if attacked by a player? :P

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