Banning all scripts

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Should scripting of any kind simply be banned to solve the botting issue?

Yes.
18
40%
No.
27
60%
 
Total votes: 45

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gorboth
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Banning all scripts

Post by gorboth » 30 Aug 2012 22:05

It has been suggested that one very clear way to eliminate botting is to simply ban the use of scripts whatsoever. Please vote whether you think this would be a good idea and post your rationale.

G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

Draugor
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Draugor » 30 Aug 2012 22:29

gorboth wrote:It has been suggested that one very clear way to eliminate botting is to simply ban the use of scripts whatsoever. Please vote whether you think this would be a good idea and post your rationale.

G.

Using a script while at the computer should still be allowed imo, if you actually reply to wizards and show that you're active. Should you fail to reply, you should get nuked, straight up, it requires wizards to answer quick tho so they are actually dealt with.

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Cherek
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Cherek » 30 Aug 2012 23:18

But what is a script? Where do we draw the line for scripting?

Is a trigger a script? I assume not?

What about a collection of triggers that make you herb without user input? Is that triggers or is it considered a script? It's still only triggers.

Simpler triggers that lets you forge all day? Is that scripting or just triggers? Is it okey if I sit at the screen watching me character forge, or do I have to manually type "forge" each time? What if I let me character forge with triggers while I play another game in another window? Is that botting then?

Is teaming with someone with a collection of triggers set up to follow your leader a script? Even if I am there watching the whole thing? Is it a script if I am not there? Its still only triggers?

Is clicking on the Cmud automapper scripting?

What about paths? What about paths that move you between locations searching for herbs on each? Is that a script or a path?

Or An alias that grabs all loot in an area, calls a path to head to the nearest shop, then aliases to sell the loot and return to the looting area. Is that a script?


Botting is pretty clearly defined in the rules, scripting is... well... what IS scripting anyway?

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gorboth
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by gorboth » 31 Aug 2012 00:04

Cherek wrote:But what is a script? Where do we draw the line for scripting?

Is a trigger a script? I assume not?

What about a collection of triggers that make you herb without user input? Is that triggers or is it considered a script? It's still only triggers.

Simpler triggers that lets you forge all day? Is that scripting or just triggers? Is it okey if I sit at the screen watching me character forge, or do I have to manually type "forge" each time? What if I let me character forge with triggers while I play another game in another window? Is that botting then?

Is teaming with someone with a collection of triggers set up to follow your leader a script? Even if I am there watching the whole thing? Is it a script if I am not there? Its still only triggers?

Is clicking on the Cmud automapper scripting?

What about paths? What about paths that move you between locations searching for herbs on each? Is that a script or a path?

Or An alias that grabs all loot in an area, calls a path to head to the nearest shop, then aliases to sell the loot and return to the looting area. Is that a script?


Botting is pretty clearly defined in the rules, scripting is... well... what IS scripting anyway?
Yup. I asked these questions in the other thread, but didn't hear what people thought. My guess is that a script would be defined as a suite of triggers that allow your client to play the game without you. As to where the line is drawn ... I'd love to hear from those who suggested this idea.

G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

Laurel

Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Laurel » 31 Aug 2012 07:36

gorboth wrote:I asked these questions in the other thread, but didn't hear what people thought. My guess is that a script would be defined as a suite of triggers that allow your client to play the game without you. As to where the line is drawn ... I'd love to hear from those who suggested this idea.

G.
That's fairly simple, or?
I script, other scripters bot. Period.

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Cherek
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Cherek » 31 Aug 2012 14:32

I voted no for many reasons. I am really surprised to see how many voted yes. I was assuming we'd have 90% "no"s.

Nobody has really explained why they voted though. I'll explain my vote, maybe someone will explain why they voted yes. I cant think of any reason to vote yes, but there has to be some reasons and I'd really like to hear them.

Anyway,
I dont really see the difference between scripting and manually typing commands. If you sit at the computer, watching your screen, does it matter if you type 10 commands per hours or 1000? Why should that be illegal? How soon until we ban automaps, paths, triggers and aliases then? They also automate the player making tedious tasks less tedious. Those features, just as scripts remove the need to write hundreds of repetitive commands all the time... but we want people to type these commands themselves... because? Well I surely dont know.

Neither do I see why banning scripts would catch more botters? If that is the main reason to ban scripts. Botting is already illegal yet a lot of people do it. Make scripting illegal we'll just have a whole lot of more players breaking the rules that we need to catch. And scripters are much harder to catch. How do you check if someone is scripting? Add some random delays between your moves and it will be very heard to detect from someone who is just typing quickly. And since you're at the computer you can respond to anything at any time. Even without random delays its really hard to prove. I think we're going to have a whole lot of upset players if we ban scripts. And for what reason? Because we want to catch botters? Well botters are already much easier to catch than scripters so a ban on scripting will in reality do nothing...? It just gives us more players to hunt without making it easier to catch those we really want to catch. I dont see the point of doing that...

Also, Genesis has become a game that needs a fraction of your attention. Many people "play" while doing something else. At work, surfing, watching TV, etc. Good or bad I dont know, but thats the reality today. If we want players to play more actively we need to provide them with something fun to do. Forcing people to actively do something they feel is boring and only requires 10% of their attention will just make these people not play. We want them to focus 100% by enforcing a rule saying they have to? Uh.

I think we, the wizards, but also the non-botting/scripting community really need to instead ask ourselves what positive things we can do to make the game more active again. If that is what we want. (I assume most would like that). With almost no PVP, almost no guild politics, very little RP, most guilds are walk up and join or close to it, advancement is by gxp, and very few people even team (except dragging someone around), I really understand why people script and bot. Where's the fun in walking around alone searching a huge area for herbs, or killing the same foes over and over again... but... what else is there to do? To make it at least somewhat interesting people turn to scripts because then at least they can do something else while still get some enjoyment from watching their stats or herb stock grow.

I say instead of hunting scripters and botters, ask yourself, no matter if you're a wizard or player, what you can do to make the game more interactive again. Try to make these botters and scripters enjoy them game actively again instead of hunting them down crying "Cheater!!".

Thats what I think on this whole matter.

Laurel

Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Laurel » 31 Aug 2012 14:41

Just do this:
http://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewto ... 265#p16265

Also combine it with things we have on the war-areas already:
patrols
different enemies
autoattackers
skill-decrease (d-fear)
specials for NPCs (slash/impale/kattack/d-fear/draconians' things)
plains on fire
weapons/armours/items dropping (auraks)
force-movement (auraks)
fatique is a bitch
panic is a bitch (if you stay too long in fire/lightning)

Arcon

Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Arcon » 31 Aug 2012 16:12

Cherek wrote:

Also, Genesis has become a game that needs a fraction of your attention.

Just these few words explain the reason why I voted yes. The problem is exactly this, people don't pay attention to the game. When out fighting they have their scripts running while they watch TV. Herbing they go somewhere and start the script and watch tv (or work). That is NOT a game, that is spam.

Do we want a game where people take an active role in or a "rp"-chat with some spam happening in the background?

Laurel

Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Laurel » 31 Aug 2012 16:24

Issue is: we all stopped being students and started to have jobs/families/pets/whatever significantly decreasing our time available for gaming.
Because of this, we have much less time to focus on any game, which leads to a great success of such games as World of Tanks or League of Legends. Little time involved, but still great progress possible. QUITE unlike Genesis, which requires long time involved to progress with anything.

How much progress can you make in Genesis in 15min (max. WoT or LoL Dominion game)? How much progress can you make in Genesis even in 1h (max. LoL game I played and was tired after ... even tho I once raided 3 days a week for 4-5hours).

This relation between time to progress vs time available for gaming leaves Genesis QUITE behind current mainstream games. Unfortunately.

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gorboth
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by gorboth » 31 Aug 2012 17:07

Now we're getting somewhere. I'm loving this thread.

G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

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