Banning all scripts

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Should scripting of any kind simply be banned to solve the botting issue?

Yes.
18
40%
No.
27
60%
 
Total votes: 45

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Cherek
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Cherek » 12 Sep 2012 13:41

Fairlight: Oh I do agree with you, I'd like to see Genesis full of active players playing the game too. Sadly, we have a long way to get there again.

I think RP, politics and PVP is the key. I know many disagree though, especially with the PVP part. But well, thats what I think.

Grinding / herbing / smithing just isnt fun enough on its own, especially when you are alone. So people turn to scripts and bots. I dont like it either, but I also think its perfectly understandable. I mean what else is there to do when you have finished most quests, joined the guild you want, reached the highest titles, already got heaps of great EQ, etc? Without much RP, guild politics or PVP all you can do is keep grinding the same areas...

Fairlight
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Fairlight » 12 Sep 2012 15:29

Well, I remember playing a mud once, called age of chaos.

This mud had a Pvp-zone. Where you had to scurry across a battle-zone. and
the object being to conquor the 2 towers. If you won, the guild you were
in gained ranking, and some combat bonuses.

This isn't necesarily the way to go, but you could start to create your own
ideas from there.

* An area where it is all against all. And last man standing would gain some
form of reward for x number of days, or hours.
Other forms could be to have 1 player in such a bg become the "rabbit",
however with the hidden agenda that this person get's a massive boost in
stats, and thus his obligation to kill as many as he can, and the rest need to
down the "rabbit".

* A team zone with the same simple rules. It would be cool to have a guild bg.
But for now I do not think we can muster enough people.

* Have pvp gear, meaning when you enter you leave your normal gear behind in
a locker, then to be handed some standard eq. which is equal to all. Maybe even let all players have same special.

just a few creative ideas, whether they are code-wise possible is another matter.

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Cherek
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Cherek » 12 Sep 2012 23:43

Fairlight: Yeah, good ideas. I've had similar ideas, like "capture the flag" and "assault / defence" type of areas. But as Gorboth said earlier, currently we have what we have and we'll probably have to stick with it fore awhile. Either until some old wizards find time and motivation or until a new generation of active wizards with lots of time comes along.

But the existing wizards could probably do smaller adjustments that also could encourage a more active gameplay, I've seen many good suggestions lately, in this topic and others. So all is not lost. :)

One of my favorite suggestions was the one from Targun regarding a fatigue penalty for super-speedwalking. I think thats a really interesting idea with lots of potential. I am not certain its a "small adjustment", or a huge project, but at least it _sounds_ fairly simple...

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Titan
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Avatar » 13 Sep 2012 10:02

Well, I guess another ancient old fart needs to voice an opinion or two now.

Concerning triggers and scripts. Those are two different things. A trigger is used, mainly, in combat, and helps you fire off your specials, so you don't have to stare intensely at the screen, and seeing as people tend to be a member of several guilds with combat specials, they'd have a busy time firing off all their specials, everytime they reset.

A script is an automated way of playing the game. My opinion is that, moving around the game (unless its a path that you manually fire off, to get from A to B now and then), is something you have to do on your own. Initiating combat (attacking the first enemy in the room), is something you have to do on your own. Certain places in Genesis, I have a trigger for automatically attacking the next one in the room, seeing as they don't join the fight on their own, and there are a number of them in each room.

Basically you have, as stated previously, to be at the computer, and be attentive, while playing the game.

As for the staff holding on to their positions and not caring. That is, frankly, just insulting. The staff is there, doing things we don't hear about. They spend time doing these things, that they aren't being paid for. Time they could spend with family and friends.

What would they gain by holding on to positions in a game that is more or less empty these days?

Of course, there are individuals that do nothing, just like there are mortals that do nothing but log on, and just idle for the hell of it. But generalising in such a way is insulting to the ones that actually are active in the game, in one way or another.

Lets refrain from bringing such infantile slander into an, otherwise, interesting thread.
Angmar! ANGMAR!! ANGMAR!!!
Pulp Znuga! PULP!!!!

Davvol
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Davvol » 13 Sep 2012 15:52

1. many many years ago, after you reached Champ level (old champ, what is something like RH-hero now) you are generally had no reason to grind father. Ok, after reaching immortal champ, or epic champ. But no one was aware, are you newbie, epic or immortal champ.
2. when you are not here for grind, you are here for fun. team up to kill deepie or golem, do some PvP actions and so on.
3. Now, everyone wants to be Myth, and if you have not reached quest XP cap, its fucking hard to do it. You need grind, grind and grind.
Conclusion - remove all that mortal levels above Hero. Revert back to old mortal level system. Remove all that "far to myth" and "halfway to supreme". You just have "titanic" and that all. After that you have no idea about "epic/immortal/supreme".
4. Introduce more challenge. Lower XP from grinding trolls, more XP for killing dragon or another player.

Fairlight
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Fairlight » 13 Sep 2012 19:35

4. Introduce more challenge. Lower XP from grinding trolls, more XP for killing dragon or another player.
As a represatentive of the Dragon Order, then I have to take a steep stance towards such a suggestion!

On another note, going back in any evolution is very hard. It would be a major change. Removing goals towards where people can meassure themselves, is one way to reduce grinding, yet we will find other ways to do that. Drinking x amount of wines. Lifting x amount of coins. etc etc. It is in our very nature to compete with ourselves, with others. It's very healthy, but it can lead to obsession.

If you would, you can compare botting to using doping in sports, to gain the upper hand. (Although I'm fairly sure we won't reach the olympic program, just yet:)).

I think we should find a level playing field and go from there. And removing
the "new" mortal levels won't do that, now that all are aware of the possibilities
which lies beyond the words describing size etc.

Hope I made a little sense, if not I do appologize.

Laurel

Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Laurel » 13 Sep 2012 21:44

Maybe it would be good to keep in mind, that a healthy population consists of a balance between achievers, killers, socializers and explorers.

Either you people stop trying to force everybody to be the same dominant player-type as you, or you will find yourself in a very one-sided game, that soon will loose the last drops of interest even for your kind.

The solution you all so badly need is simple - more active players. Players of different kind. We currently lack explorers and socializers most, while we have achievers enough. Killers will come as soon they smell prey again.

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Titan
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Avatar » 13 Sep 2012 23:30

Personally, I always found the change in mortal levels and the old stat change to be the killing blow for the game.

Thats when things started going downhill.

I, personally, started losing interest. My wife did, and all my friends did.

Go figure.
Angmar! ANGMAR!! ANGMAR!!!
Pulp Znuga! PULP!!!!

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Cherek
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Cherek » 13 Sep 2012 23:52

The killing blow happened over a decade ago... thats one slow death? :)

I seriously doubt there is ONE thing that has caused the decline of players. New mortals levels and/or stats might be a contributing factor though.

I think someone previously suggested that your mortal title could be private. So only you can see it. That way people could still strive for it if they want to, but those who do not want to does not really have to, and those who wanna be sneaky could even lie about their title.

I think it's an interesting idea. Yes, we would still know who's big. For awhile. But after awhile we'll not be so sure anymore. How often has player X died? Is he still as big as he used to be? Is he bigger?

Just removing all titles and stats above titan, when most active players are above that, would just cause a lot of grief I think, and it would remove a goal for those who enjoy grinding... making them private would achieve that old "everyone is champion but we dont know how big they really are"-feeling that we once had. I remember asking the big myths what they would feel about making it private, only one voiced an opinion, Freya, who if I remember correctly had nothing against the idea.

The rankings would of course have to change... I think they could still remain with the "...of the week" categories, but the overall ones should need to be removed of course. But other than that cant think of anything else that would need to be adjusted...

Anyway, I think it is an interesting idea that could remove a lot of the need to grind for many people. Maybe it could lead to people actually doing something else, and not worry as much about grinding. Reaching champion in the old days had this effect on lots of people, I think its quite possible making titles private would have a similar effect.

Makfly
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Re: Banning all scripts

Post by Makfly » 14 Sep 2012 07:11

Hiding mortal levels might be a fine idea, but it does nothing to correct a much, much bigger problem.

Genesis is a FFA PvP game.
Anyone can kill anyone anywhere for any reason.


Through scripting/botting many have gotten such an insanely unfair advantage, that it completely kills any of my interest in participating in PvP within Genesis.
I stand absolutely no chance against most myth, and some like Irk have become virtually unkillable, even against a team of myth/legends.
It's completely silly, and the playing field is so uneven it's a joke.
I know that I will never be able to compete, because I will never be able to reach their level through normal play.
For instance, I just log off or stay clear of certain domains within the game, if I see certain players log on. Honestly, I mostly just log off these days.

Since nobody in charge seems to favour taking anything away from anyone, how are we ever going to undo, what has been gained through (more or less) cheating?
I do not see any option of leveling the playing field, without someone loosing power. ...And if it is done, there will be whines from the group, that can no more completely dominate the rest of the community.

So until you fix that, hiding mortal levels, coding new and exciting PvP battle-modes does nothing to fix the underlying problem:
Advantage gained unfairly.
Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

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