Roleplaying

Discuss general game topics or anything else that doesn't fit in the other forums
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Celephias
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Joined: 19 Oct 2010 19:23

Re: Roleplaying

Post by Celephias » 05 Dec 2013 23:10

FWIW - the mystics had a lot of great spells, but they were a supporting-style guild. The DPS wasn't very good at all, and we were restricted to mystic weapons and armour - all of which was pretty mediocre. The disquiet came from the mystery (people not knowing what they could do) and the supporting spells. You couldn't power play in the guild to save yourself if you tried. You shouldn't however ever die unless you were in lag. There were lots of ways to save your @ss but not many ways to take someone else's ;-)

Gadez
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Re: Roleplaying

Post by Gadez » 06 Dec 2013 01:22

Fascinating stuff, Gorboth. Your personal commitment to role-playing was always evident and indeed an inspiration, but even so, I ultimately left the game at least partly because I felt that it was catering almost exclusively to the grinder type of player, leaving both the incentives for and the quality of role playing lacking. I never understood why wizards so shrunk from and under "subjectivity" when it came to role-playing, seeing how you run everything else – balance, quests, areas etc. – rather subjectively too (however well-argued). Did new public management reach Genesis first?!

Anyway, picking up on Celephias idea about wizards possessing NPCs for player interaction, why not diversify player categories, creating one to do just that – to possess NPCs so as to interact, full stop. I, for one, would sign up immediately. It would allow us to play both high and low, badass or arse plain and simple, without the hours of grinding/hoarding that are so off-putting to at least some of the population, past and present.

As for easter rabbits… isn't the recent mage hunt a perfect example of the necessarily forced coexistence of at least three different levels of Genesis role-play, local (rangers vs Mages etc.), global (Alliance of Elnoven etc.), meta (events, personal crusades against guilds etc.)? More often than not, the meta level negatively influences the two other.

Cheers!

Kiara
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Re: Roleplaying

Post by Kiara » 06 Dec 2013 02:35

Gadez wrote: As for easter rabbits… isn't the recent mage hunt a perfect example of the necessarily forced coexistence of at least three different levels of Genesis role-play, local (rangers vs Mages etc.), global (Alliance of Elnoven etc.), meta (events, personal crusades against guilds etc.)? More often than not, the meta level negatively influences the two other.
Is not "meta" letting RL stuff influence how you play the game? Not sure how that fits in events and crusades and stuff? I'd put those two in the global category? Meta to me is someone does something against one of your chars, and you use your other char(s) to get back. Or someone insults you on forum/Skype etc, and you take it out in game. Or attacking players from a specific real life country/city/site. Stuff like that.

Now there's definitely a lot of "meta"-reasons all over the place. That's always been the case and probably always will. Simply for the reason I mentioned before, that we've all been around and known each other for such a long time, and meet in different forms and shape in and out of the game. I think even the best RP'er always is at least a little influenced by out of character stuff. We are still only people, and we let our feelings affect how we play.

But not always. Just because someone starts a fight it doesnt mean there is some big drama going on behind the scenes or that you dislike a person or the players in a guild etc. The best conflicts are in my opinion those that NOT are like that of course.

I, the player, has absolutely nothing against the mages or the mage guild. On the contrary.

Laurel

Re: Roleplaying

Post by Laurel » 06 Dec 2013 09:44

Gadez wrote:Anyway, picking up on Celephias idea about wizards possessing NPCs for player interaction, why not diversify player categories, creating one to do just that – to possess NPCs so as to interact, full stop. I, for one, would sign up immediately. It would allow us to play both high and low, badass or arse plain and simple, without the hours of grinding/hoarding that are so off-putting to at least some of the population, past and present.
LOVELY!
Just imagine you can possess the yeti and start to finally hunt those buttheads who come over to Icewall (as in roam around Icewall). Or possess Mergula to roam LoD. Or Ashburz to roam Moria and smack those careless adventurers! Team up - Ashburz + the half-uruk and coordinate your effort to re-claim Moria! Take over Fael and roam the castle to see if your minotaurs are performing well. Possess Qual-thas and guard the whole camp and surroundings - not just a single place. Team up with 4 friends and possess all shadow-elves to team up and let the Hunt commence to it's full extent!

I guess this would address issues people voiced over no danger (due to full predictability) in grinding.

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OgreToyBoy
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Re: Roleplaying

Post by OgreToyBoy » 06 Dec 2013 11:34

Need insane self-control as a wizard to interact with players. Most of us are quite annoying and more than one wizard would love to take control of a super npc and kill those he/she disslike. Then with to much wizard interference and lack of control give opportunities for those who'd like the edge through cheats. What Mecien did would be considered cheating by todays standard even if he did it to enrich 'his' players experience.

Laurel

Re: Roleplaying

Post by Laurel » 06 Dec 2013 12:22

Actually what was done in/to SU by wizards themselves and their alts was quite THE shit imo.

Gadez
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Re: Roleplaying

Post by Gadez » 06 Dec 2013 14:01

To begin with, a possessed NPCs would keep its movement patterns as coded, allowing the possessor only to speak and emote on its behalf. Possessor player class would be actors, finally giving meaning to that wretched club.

Boundaries would obviously have to be strict. Even the slightest player control requires a tremendous amount of judgement. You can't code that, neither judgement nor spark, and the impression one gets from reading the forum is that the game is lacking in both. Removing the death penalty just serves further to kill off both.

Celephias
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Joined: 19 Oct 2010 19:23

Re: Roleplaying

Post by Celephias » 06 Dec 2013 17:55

OTB/Laurel/Gadez - you're all on point. The NPC animations Mecien did were always emotive and dialog - never direct combat (at least with me). And yes, by today's rules it would be disallowed. Gorby hit the nail right on the head with his characterization that Mecien acted like a dungeon master. It was brilliant and made the game rich, but it also took a lot of self control on his part and his judgment ruled all in the guild. You could imagine someone 'doing it wrong' ;-)

I like Laurel's idea of putting a little more spice in the grind. If a wiz could 'enhance' an NPC or even have a set of wizzes become NPC's (like a wiz day of sorts) that is also interesting.

I try and imagine if I were a wiz (never having been one) what I would do. I would probably do something more like what Gadez stated, engaging via emotes and dialog. Even better of I could put the player on a quest of sorts. I do think modifying combat is super interesting, but the griping would be epic if the wizzes succeeded in killing players (e.g. players felt like they got hosed), especially if the players were paying attention and couldn't survive. Though if you're grinding on autopilot I think its ok if you get killed from inattention. ;-)

This is a great topic, but probably won't be more than a discussion here for the reasons people state. Its hard to get right across the board.

Arcon

Re: Roleplaying

Post by Arcon » 06 Dec 2013 19:15

Celephias wrote: Though if you're grinding on autopilot I think its ok if you get killed from inattention. ;-)
Thats how you check for bots! The wizard takes over one of the NPC that is being grinded and start adding more power and some strange tactics or he could just start doing the disco duck or sing or anything different. Anyone looking at the screen would notice the strange behavior of that NPC while a bot wouldn't and it shouldn't make automatic alarms go off that the botter might have set up. Go bot hunting! Can work for herbs any wiz wants to possess a herb? ;) The small white berry starts screaming in fear "Please don't eat me!"


Sorry for the hijacking.

Gadez
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Re: Roleplaying

Post by Gadez » 06 Dec 2013 21:40

Given that, or rather if… if the game is in a state of crisis and decline, I think it is fundamentally wrong to discard daring suggestions on the sole ground that they might be difficult to get right "across the board". Could you mention anything at all in Genesis, which is perceived to be "right across the board"?

Too late to reverse now, and at this point in time it might actually be the best strategy, but I felt that Gorboth et al. took a wrong turn when they tried, at all cost, to accommodate individuals who threatened to leave the game for losing their stats. More often than not, the contribution of these individuals to the magic of the game was minimal, at best a +1 in the who list.

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