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Problems Thread 
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Expert
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Joined: 04 Nov 2013 20:26
Posts: 296
There has been a lot of talk lately about solutions to every problem under the sun. PVP. Size inflation. Quest xp difficulties. Why people leave. How death should work. Etc, etc.

What has been being mentioned lately is distinctly different - what are the problems? What is the direction the game should go in? Should players have a say in this, or should it just be decided at the level of those who are writing the game?

So I wanted to start a new thread. Let's call this the "Problems Thread". This isn't a thread for solutions - those are elsewhere. If you want to post a solution, go post it on one of those. Let's instead try to identify what we see as the exact problems, so that perhaps we can help the wizards (as a community) identify what things need to be addressed.

I'll start off. My list is this:

1) Currently, it is near impossible in Genesis to reach max level without devoting years of your life or a lot of time that many of us don't have. Beyond that, even when you attain max level, you are still one of the smallest players in the game. I can go out and hit myth, but my stats will never catch up to someone who has scripts that they run every night to continuously grind xp. This is a problem - size inflation and the size gap will never meet an end so long as this is the case. All modern day games have a level cap, which makes it such that at some point, everyone is on a level playing field, to some extent. Someone might have better gear, but eventually you can attain gear of similar quality, and be at least close to equal with them. In these games, skill makes up for a lot where gear lacks. Moral of the story: at some point, you stop growing. People don't quit those games, but they threaten to leave Genesis if a similar policy is instituted... Which brings me to...

2) There is no "end-game content". There's no reason when you hit max level to stop grinding and find something else to do with your time. Even if there were a stat cap to fix size inflation / size gap, the only true reason to hit the cap would be so whenever your toon's guild got into a war, you could log in and kick some ass with others that were all at the cap. Caps are indeed bad for Genesis, if there isn't something better to take up a player's time.

3) Genesis, as a community, has a fetish for punishment. We feel that a player should be punished if they make a stupid mistake and die during a quest. We feel that a player should be punished just because they are participating in PVP or instigate PVP, and aren't successful in their go. We think that just because someone says something stupid or isn't the type of player who enjoys RP, they should be punished with death. This is a problem to me. We come here to play a game, not to be punished like small children. Games should be fun, they shouldn't be like schoolwork. This also brings me to:

4) PVP is backwards. I, like many others have stated, feel pvp should reward the winner and the loser. There should be some reason to PARTICIPATE in PVP. If I participate in RP, I am advanced in my guild (in many cases.) If I participate in PVE, my stats grow. These are tangibles. If I participate in PVP, my only tangible is another's death, and I risk the severe punishment of death. Where is the encouragement? There is no true reward. Without incentive, PVP will never be something that people look upon favorably, especially if they belong to a guild which they feel is ill-suited for PVP.

5) Balance. I firmly believe that it is impossible to ever fully balance a game. Do not misunderstand me. However, presently, we are operating under a system where half of the guilds in the game are conforming to a new (arguably more powerful) standard, while the other half are retained at an older out-dated standard. We have limited resources, and I understand this. However, until all guilds are brought up to speed, all of the above issues are only going to be exacerbated. This, in my mind, is the number one issue that needs to be fixed, above all else - including above events, above fixing death, above opening new guilds.

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Zhar wrote:
"Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."


06 Feb 2014 22:14
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Adept

Joined: 26 Sep 2011 05:33
Posts: 133
6) 1 Replies 61 Views (at time of edit)

Apparently everyone is willing to comment on various solutions, but not on what the underlying problems actually are? Guess we better solve it quick, whatever it is.

I realize I may come from a different perspective as everyone else, but my world is software development. When a client comes to my firm wanting a solution, we stop them right there and discuss the problem first. No one can accurately create a solution for a problem they do not fully understand. Oh, you want an inventory management system? No problem, let's just go ahead and build one for you. Oh, it doesn't do what you want because the problem wasn't managing inventory it was actually security because your inventory was going missing. The analogy doesn't hold perfectly here, but I hope you see my point.

Propose solution after solution for as long as you want (in other threads), nothing will be accomplished until we have serious discussions about what the problems actually are.


07 Feb 2014 18:28
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Champion

Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20
Posts: 610
Absolute number 1 problem, far beyond all other problems in my opinion:

TOO FEW PLAYERS.

If someone can argue for another problem being bigger, feel free to. But thats what I think.

So we need to figure out why we have too few players:

Again, I think there is one clear number 1 reason:

NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT THE GAME.

Thats what I think is the main problem, and the main reason for the problem.

Solve that, and tons of other problems will be solved as well.


07 Feb 2014 21:34
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Hero

Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25
Posts: 446
actually number 1 problem is genesis being outdated game (like all muds) - 15/20 years ago there was no real alternative in terms of online gaming, now there's plenty of other games to choose from (99% with graphics :D) - don't get me wrong - i still enjoy genesis, being this game to chill, but I don't think I would start mudding at all if there were games like LoL etc to choose from back then.


07 Feb 2014 21:55
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Expert
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Joined: 04 Nov 2013 20:26
Posts: 296
Kiara wrote:
Absolute number 1 problem, far beyond all other problems in my opinion:

TOO FEW PLAYERS.

If someone can argue for another problem being bigger, feel free to. But thats what I think.

So we need to figure out why we have too few players:

Again, I think there is one clear number 1 reason:

NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT THE GAME.

Thats what I think is the main problem, and the main reason for the problem.

Solve that, and tons of other problems will be solved as well.


Not to argue the point, but to understand it, how exactly does more players fix issues?

For example, you complain frequently that SS is severely underpowered. Having 10 kenders all slinging with underpowered slings at 10 mages with present-powered mage abilities won't solve issues with your damage output or PVP issues.

Am I missing something? I'm just trying to understand how you think simply having more players will address all of the issues.

I don't really want to turn this into a solution thread, per se, as I stated above... I'm just, I guess, trying to understand why having too few players is the biggest problem. I feel like if other problems are fixed, retaining players becomes easier, which thereby solves the too few players problem.

_________________
Zhar wrote:
"Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."


07 Feb 2014 22:07
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Champion

Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20
Posts: 610
Amorana wrote:
Kiara wrote:
Absolute number 1 problem, far beyond all other problems in my opinion:

TOO FEW PLAYERS.

If someone can argue for another problem being bigger, feel free to. But thats what I think.

So we need to figure out why we have too few players:

Again, I think there is one clear number 1 reason:

NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT THE GAME.

Thats what I think is the main problem, and the main reason for the problem.

Solve that, and tons of other problems will be solved as well.


Not to argue the point, but to understand it, how exactly does more players fix issues?

For example, you complain frequently that SS is severely underpowered. Having 10 kenders all slinging with underpowered slings at 10 mages with present-powered mage abilities won't solve issues with your damage output or PVP issues.

Am I missing something? I'm just trying to understand how you think simply having more players will address all of the issues.

I don't really want to turn this into a solution thread, per se, as I stated above... I'm just, I guess, trying to understand why having too few players is the biggest problem. I feel like if other problems are fixed, retaining players becomes easier, which thereby solves the too few players problem.


It wont solve ALL problems. I said it would solve _tons_ of problems. Not all.:)

But yes, it will solve many i think.

Guilds will be more filled, solving the problem with guild leadership inactivity.

Guilds will be filled and have active leaders, meaning they can focus on dealing with other guilds, in terms of alliances, wars, etc.

With more people in guilds, and lots of new people who dont already know everyone on Skype you'll eventually need to RP your way into guilds again, and RP within your guild, and when meeting other people in general.

With more players there will be more people of different sizes in the game, and more players in YOUR size to play with. Both in PVP and coop. This wont solve player size differences, but it would make it less apparent when we have players in more varied sizes running around.

It wont solve the guild imbalance problem. Obviously. That is one problem that will remain, and perhaps be even more visible. Sadly. Which is why I suggested the quick fix in the other thread.:)

But most importantly, more players provide without doubt more fun for everyone. And if we enjoy interacting, teaming, RP-ing, fighting, with new people, we might not be so obsessed with more technical problems. I mean the game had 100+ players and was "flawed" in many ways, but the people in the game made it fun.


07 Feb 2014 22:32
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Champion

Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20
Posts: 610
Kvator wrote:
actually number 1 problem is genesis being outdated game (like all muds) - 15/20 years ago there was no real alternative in terms of online gaming, now there's plenty of other games to choose from (99% with graphics :D) - don't get me wrong - i still enjoy genesis, being this game to chill, but I don't think I would start mudding at all if there were games like LoL etc to choose from back then.


I disagree. Books arent outdated just because there are movies?:) Yes graphical games can do stuff text games cant, but text games can do things graphical ones cant as well. Maybe we're also outdated and not perfect in terms of some more game-technical things, like fighting system and balance, etc, but we have other strong sides, like a very unique and lore and deep history.

But even if we agree on that we ARE outdated and imperfect in many ways. That we still have players, and actually attract a few new ones even without any real promotion, is proof enough that there is still stuff here to enjoy. For new and old players.

And lets remember we dont need that many new players either.

New commercial MMORPGs needs hundreds of thousands, or even millions of players to be successful.

We need a hundred. Or two. And we're not competing against the big graphical games for players. This is a tiny tiny niche game in a tiny tiny niche genre of games. However, in a world of 9 billion people, I am sure there are a few hundred more except us who are already playing, that would also enjoy it here. The trick is finding them. But unless we actually try to do that, we will never know if they're out there either.


07 Feb 2014 22:39
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Expert
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Joined: 04 Nov 2013 20:26
Posts: 296
Kiara wrote:
We need a hundred. Or two. And we're not competing against the big graphical games for players. This is a tiny tiny niche game in a tiny tiny niche genre of games. However, in a world of 9 billion people, I am sure there are a few hundred more except us who are already playing, that would also enjoy it here. The trick is finding them. But unless we actually try to do that, we will never know if they're out there either.


Whoa now. Ahead of your time. We're not projected to hit 9 Billion until 2045.

Really though, good thoughts in your last two notes.

_________________
Zhar wrote:
"Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."


07 Feb 2014 22:44
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Champion

Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20
Posts: 610
Amorana wrote:
Kiara wrote:
We need a hundred. Or two. And we're not competing against the big graphical games for players. This is a tiny tiny niche game in a tiny tiny niche genre of games. However, in a world of 9 billion people, I am sure there are a few hundred more except us who are already playing, that would also enjoy it here. The trick is finding them. But unless we actually try to do that, we will never know if they're out there either.


Whoa now. Ahead of your time. We're not projected to hit 9 Billion until 2045.

Really though, good thoughts in your last two notes.


Not sure where I got 9 billion from. I know its 7. Brain playing tricks I guess.

And thanks. It's nice when people take time to add a little praise in the middle of all the forum "wars".:)


07 Feb 2014 23:35
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Apprentice

Joined: 06 Nov 2011 19:43
Posts: 26
Kiara wrote:
Absolute number 1 problem, far beyond all other problems in my opinion:

TOO FEW PLAYERS.

If someone can argue for another problem being bigger, feel free to. But thats what I think.

So we need to figure out why we have too few players:

Again, I think there is one clear number 1 reason:

NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT THE GAME.

Thats what I think is the main problem, and the main reason for the problem.

Solve that, and tons of other problems will be solved as well.


Too few players is a symptom which is caused by established players leaving and new players not staying. It is an underlying factor in many of the problems the game has today but it is not the underlying cause of these problems. Unlimited growth is.


08 Feb 2014 00:26
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