2 week limit on potions, components and herbs

Discuss general game topics or anything else that doesn't fit in the other forums
Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.

What should we do about the 2 week limit on components?

Keep it as it is, it works fine.
2
6%
Keep it, but add optional e-mail reminder a few days before you lose your stuff.
3
9%
Remove it, it's just annoying to lose your stuff and it does little good.
27
84%
 
Total votes: 32

Chanele
Titan
Posts: 530
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 12:39

Re: 2 week limit on potions, components and herbs

Post by Chanele » 18 Apr 2014 19:02

Amorana wrote:
Chanele wrote:
cotillion wrote:I think we've mistakenly started down this path of things saving...
Time to decide if we want items to save or not.

Some items save sometimes is not a good policy.
I agree with Cotillion, the reason people get dishearten (and stop playing) if they don't log in within two weeks and loose all herbs and components is because THEY save in the first place. Packs, achemy items, herbs, food, drinks what are next on the save list? This is a problem we created when trying to solve something else.

Personally I would like herbs to work just as other items, they glow if picked close to Arma and "old" herbs will be removed from the game, just like all other items.

What happens if the game crashes or someone returns from a break? All items are wiped from the game/inventory and all player/s has to start from scratch. Did I say all players?
No, all casters will have an huge advantage when they always start with full offensive power since the components save. Not fair imo, a melee character will have to spend several hours in X days before they are lucky enough to actually get a good weapon of their choice.

Now,
before Mages, Psuchae followers and other casters starts crying what a nerf this would be I will agree there has to be changes how components work. There are several solutions out there already, components that are only consumed based a % chance, components that can be multiplied by being smashed/grinded etc.

All casters, myself included, are spoiled and I see several in this thread that wants more..more...more. It is called greed.
There's literally one item in the game that gives mana back at a decent rate. There's quite a few more that give health back. That's my problem with the argument of "spell casters would have it so easy." There's a lot of options for melee to gain health back at a decent rate. Weapons, imbuements that heal, held items... Most melee can just go out and buy booze and get an increased health regen rate. For casters, it's herbs and that one item. You can say we're spoiled all you want, but in terms of base I-need-this-resource-to-survive melee has it better off, in my opinion.
It is your opinion.
You did not adress the main argument: With saving components casters will always be ready to play with full offense no matter if the game crash, they don't play in x days/weeks/years. Why should'nt all other weapons save?

Either let everything save or nothing.

Jhael
Adept
Posts: 133
Joined: 26 Sep 2011 05:33

Re: 2 week limit on potions, components and herbs

Post by Jhael » 18 Apr 2014 19:39

Chanele wrote:
Amorana wrote:There's literally one item in the game that gives mana back at a decent rate. There's quite a few more that give health back. That's my problem with the argument of "spell casters would have it so easy." There's a lot of options for melee to gain health back at a decent rate. Weapons, imbuements that heal, held items... Most melee can just go out and buy booze and get an increased health regen rate. For casters, it's herbs and that one item. You can say we're spoiled all you want, but in terms of base I-need-this-resource-to-survive melee has it better off, in my opinion.
It is your opinion.
You did not adress the main argument: With saving components casters will always be ready to play with full offense no matter if the game crash, they don't play in x days/weeks/years. Why should'nt all other weapons save?

Either let everything save or nothing.
Amorana did address the main argument, just not directly.

Let's compare Jhael with, say, Castaneda (picked a name out of a hat). The game crashes. Both lose all equipment on their person as well as all herbs, components, potions. Castaneda finds another sword and some armor and carries on with life. Jhael starts collecting all the lost components. An hour later Castaneda is having tons of fun crashing through Faerun. Jhael, on the other hand, is still gathering components.

You argue that, with saving components, spell casters would be ready to go at any and all times while a melee guild would be required to find equipment. Casters do not have a magical un-need for equipment, we must also gather the same equipment to be effective. The difference is that we also must gather components for our offensive abilities. If BDA slash consumed a Blade (herb) every time it was used, then your argument might hold but a melee guild special (offensive ability) simply requires a weapon, which are quite simple enough to find.

edit: To bring this in line with the topic of the thread....I do not think that the 2 week limit is necessary (aside from Petros comment, an interesting problem indeed), and I also don't think that a limit on how many components one can carry makes sense either. Lockers or vaults could be nice, but could also be an incentive to avoid player fighting though, which would be lame. Perhaps, without vaults, the inherent risk of 'If I die I will lose 10k herbs and 5k potions' is enough to mitigate unusual stockpiling of such items.

Chanele
Titan
Posts: 530
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 12:39

Re: 2 week limit on potions, components and herbs

Post by Chanele » 18 Apr 2014 21:11

The difference is that we also must gather components for our offensive abilities
I will agree there has to be changes how components work. There are several solutions out there already, components that are only consumed based a % chance, components that can be multiplied by being smashed/grinded etc.
If you bother to read my note I said herbs and components needs to be reworked and we have several examples on how that can be done.
You argue that, with saving components, spell casters would be ready to go at any and all times while a melee guild would be required to find equipment. Casters do not have a magical un-need for equipment, we must also gather the same equipment to be effective.
Go forge some armours and two tower shields and what is the problem? In your example Castaneda would still be running around with a green longsword, since no good swords boots after Arma, while you'll have a blast in Faerun or killing bosses.
I do not think that the 2 week limit is necessary (aside from Petros comment, an interesting problem indeed), and I also don't think that a limit on how many components one can carry makes sense either.
This will cause an inflation of components and eventually some people will never have to gather a single herb again, it is wrong on so many levels. Anyone can start a herb script even if they dont have time to actually play the game.


The main argument why to remove this two week rule is because people decide to bail when they realize then lost their herbs....
Everytime I log on and find empty racks I quit, can I please have an all time saving Gigantic?

Jhael
Adept
Posts: 133
Joined: 26 Sep 2011 05:33

Re: 2 week limit on potions, components and herbs

Post by Jhael » 18 Apr 2014 21:55

Chanele: Quit trying to be a smug asshole. If you'd bother to read my note you'll see that I'm talking about the current state of the game and the effects that losing components/herbs has on spell casters. The only changes I'm talking about are those that are being posed here. If you want to have a conversation about the way things ought to be when it comes to components, I'm sure you will find plenty of folks willing to have that discussion in another thread. This isn't the flames section, so lets try to keep the personal attacks to a minimum shall we?

It is true that I can go talk to Bubba and get a reasonable set of armors, but so can anyone. Your assumption that two tower shields and no weapon would be enough for a spell caster, is false, though. Just as melee guilds must find decent weapons, spell casters must rely on their mana pool. Thing about a mana pool is that it depletes quite fast (enter Amorana's note about the single item that helps replenish mana) whereas a sword dulls a much slower rate (aside from random breaking, but again that's a different conversation). So, while Jhael might be able to enter the battle field sooner, Castaneda will be much better off in the long run one he acquires his GSB.

Another difference is that Castaneda is able to do something with a green steel longsword. Sure, the sword isn't that great, maybe even bad. But Jhael can't do anything with very specific items. It's not like there's a less powerful version of a spell that I can cast for free that helps me acquire more powerful versions or some odd concept like that. Jhael is either able to cast (go on the offensive) or she is not.

Again, trying to prevent a complete derail here: The loss of herbs/potions affects everyone. I once lost a huge stack of skunk berries when I was a Gladiator and lost all interest in playing for a while due to how much harder it was to sustain without them. The only thing that removing the two week limit on herbs does is make reentry a little easier. If a player chooses/must take a break from Genesis for longer than two weeks, I don't see the point in leaving a roadblock in place for when they return.

User avatar
Mersereau
Champion
Posts: 569
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 01:05
Contact:

Re: 2 week limit on potions, components and herbs

Post by Mersereau » 19 Apr 2014 03:22

Jhael wrote: Let's compare Jhael with, say, Castaneda (picked a name out of a hat). The game crashes. Both lose all equipment on their person as well as all herbs, components, potions. Castaneda finds another sword and some armor and carries on with life. Jhael starts collecting all the lost components. An hour later Castaneda is having tons of fun crashing through Faerun. Jhael, on the other hand, is still gathering components.
Apples and oranges. Weapons and armours are randomized with a drop rate and a finite number of them. As far as I know, herbs aren't.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."
-Mel Brooks

Jhael
Adept
Posts: 133
Joined: 26 Sep 2011 05:33

Re: 2 week limit on potions, components and herbs

Post by Jhael » 19 Apr 2014 03:52

Mersereau wrote:
Jhael wrote: Let's compare Jhael with, say, Castaneda (picked a name out of a hat). The game crashes. Both lose all equipment on their person as well as all herbs, components, potions. Castaneda finds another sword and some armor and carries on with life. Jhael starts collecting all the lost components. An hour later Castaneda is having tons of fun crashing through Faerun. Jhael, on the other hand, is still gathering components.
Apples and oranges. Weapons and armours are randomized with a drop rate and a finite number of them. As far as I know, herbs aren't.
Comparatively, you only need one set of weapons/armors whereas I need 100s of herbs per play session. Apples and oranges, sure, but the two are more comparable than you let on. Additionally, I need both weapons/armours AND herbs to be able to do anything while you only need your weapons/armour. Please understand that I know that herbs make a melee guild more sustainable but know, too, that spell casters need both to be effective at all ... not just sustainable.

Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1786
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: 2 week limit on potions, components and herbs

Post by Draugor » 19 Apr 2014 09:51

Oh Jhael... armours and weapons have a chance to break whilst the NPC you need to kill is still wielding them or during the first 10 mins of your usage

User avatar
Amorana
Expert
Posts: 298
Joined: 04 Nov 2013 20:26

Re: 2 week limit on potions, components and herbs

Post by Amorana » 19 Apr 2014 16:30

It is convenient that all you melee peoples keep ignoring the fact that casters have to collect armours and weapons too. We have the same limit on armours and weapons you do, the same chances of them breaking.

If you want to complain about armour and weapon limitations, complain about the ogres who get to buy decent gear after turning in even crappy unused magical items. :-P The fact is, casters still have to go through the same crap you do, we just have a mana pool that is much harder to regen than your healh pool and herbs are a REQUIREMENT for us to play as opposed to being a way for you to be well prepared.
Zhar wrote: "Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."

Jhael
Adept
Posts: 133
Joined: 26 Sep 2011 05:33

Re: 2 week limit on potions, components and herbs

Post by Jhael » 19 Apr 2014 17:33

Draugor wrote:Oh Jhael... armours and weapons have a chance to break whilst the NPC you need to kill is still wielding them or during the first 10 mins of your usage
Jhael wrote:...aside from random breaking, but again that's a different conversation...
Jhael wrote:Additionally, I need both weapons/armours AND herbs to be able to do anything...
Caster guilds have an additional requirement to play. The two week limit makes it twice as hard for a caster to get back into the game after a break. The limit also affects any player who is well prepared in the herb department. The difference is only that a non-caster does not require the herbs to enter effective combat while a caster does. All else is the same.

User avatar
Snowrose
Rising Hero
Posts: 307
Joined: 09 Mar 2012 22:04
Location: Reseda
Contact:

Re: 2 week limit on potions, components and herbs

Post by Snowrose » 23 Apr 2014 23:12

well im a big log in log out offender, but its partially because im afraid if i leave a startroom when im playing on phone get destracted (yeah i can get destracted for 3-4 hours) everything is dropped. herbs vials quarraba i went to syberus for .. my bag of rocks ...

I dont mind having to remake potions, kinda have to anyway if you log out with some potions they go wattery,
if you put potions on guild shelf they also degrade/bug (reports have been posted) but herbs food drink rocks and bags especially bags i miss a lot when gone and typically go well crud i dont have time to go to gont(purse) syberus (quarraba) ect to get all my "cool" bags back.

what gets me playing you might ask, is when i log in and see posts on guild board or mail or look at the who list and see a new name. or see 5 guildmates chatting in mail room, not things that can be comtrolled by admins but these ARE things that if ppl log in and rage quit due to loss of bags/herbs might reduce.

and im not interested in email spam i rarely look at email.
could be cool if there was a lost n found at start locations where ppl can stick items ppl drop nearby for those times when somone mistakingly starts a sentence with the word quit (dont laugh it happens) or loggs off in PO.

making PO, board rooms, shops, banks and training areas "saving locations" ( though you do this dont have that saving echo spamming unless people type save) might increase people chance of playing as it would reduce the oh crap i got to go do a chore for three hours what if i idle out factor. people can feel free to hang out in places they might actually meet other people. instead of thier guild startroom.
Image

Post Reply
http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/