Why do some people stop playing when a conflict arises?

[Bromen]

OOC here.

This topic brings some good point. Genesis has always been one big pvp zone where you could die to anyone else at any time for any reason, role play or not. I think players like Tibor haven't been shown or taught that this is a risk (albeit, a small one) when wandering around. This risk should be noted by the player upon character creation so the player could brace him/herself for the chance of it occurring.

I would think a simple solution would also be to flag a guild as a pvp guild. Rangers, AA, MM, BDA, Knights, etc. should be presented as a guild in conflict with other players. Cherek makes a great point when stating if you join a guild with enemies, you should be ready to combat them. In a way, whomever let Tibor into the guild and vouched for him, should have also taught him the ways of escaping combat with other players. If you don't have the time to invest in members of your guild, then should you be leading in the first place?

Perhaps if a myth kills a much smaller player, that player's death penalty could be reduced based on the difference in size. For instance, when Bromen slaughtered Nemi like a baby mosquito, Nemi's recovery should have been smaller than normal, or her bonus to xp been increased. Just an idea I suppose. I don't think there's enough conflict going on to warrant such a change.

There was a time when getting killed by a bigger player was an experience rather than something to complain about. When a friend and I was killed by Monika we told stories about how we almost got away or celebrated doing some damage to her. It made us better players to figure out how to escape pvp combat or tricks to use in combat that could help. There was much more mentoring going on.

I agree with Prokop and Snowrose that the Rangers should be given their due with the recode. The rangers were such a cool guild when Bromen was growing up and classic guilds like the rangers should be treated better. As for the BDA being a bully guild, full of big players, etc. that is not true. Six months ago, the BDA had only 2 myths and a three legends. Now we sport 7 myths and a half dozen soldiers smaller than Titan. It's been fun leading this guild, courting players, and landing some bigger ones. I think it's a testament to the role play aspect of our guild and how we run it as a military unit versus casual players doing whatever they want. Laurel definitely breathed some much needed life into the guild and I will always be in his debt as we grew. Heck, in the last three months our numbers are getting close to 20. Who's to say this kind of success shouldn't be celebrated?

As for the current conflict, it is slowly coming to a close. Even though Bromen's player is sorry for the loss of Tibor, Avarel, and Ilrahil, the character Bromen will always continue to role play the war as an evil General who apologizes to no one unless it gives him an advantage. I'm not trying to bully anyone. I'm just doing what I love to do which is role play on Genesis. Too many times I've seen zero separation between the player and character (Ilrahil for example) and we need to find those who enjoy role playing more than power gaming. I would trade 10 players who leave at the first death for 1 who can shake it off, learn, and move on.

-Carmelo

[Laurel]

I don't play games to be frustrated or waste time. If things aren't getting fixed by wizards investing time, there's little point in my investing time. It's like being in a bad relationship. If there is no hope that change is going to come in a timely manner, it's insane to stick around and be miserable. I've got a whole stack of unplayed games on my Steam account, along with an MMO I am currently playing.

It's as if you have read my note from our polish board from 3 weeks ago. I agree with you 100%. In this particular case also with Straag. That's why I abandoned the hopelessly untouched Rangers after 7 years of enduring. BDA was a good choice and Bro turned out to be a great guy too!

[Cherek]

Good post Bromen!

[Icarus]

Bromen & Cherek:

Yes, Rangers have "enemies", however, with the exception of MM and AA, we don't have natural enemies. We also have agreements with them about where, why and how. Mages can protect any NPC connected to the Morgul Mages guild, that be Nazguls, Dukano and Mauhur, as well as their "claim" on Ithilien (which is disputed, of course, as Rangers also lay claim on Ithilien as defenders against the invasion). AA and Rangers have had a long standing agreement about Ithilien being a warzone, with a few exceptions, like Cassius. BDA and Rangers are NOT natural enemies, however, Bromen seems to believe that playing the General/leader of an evil guild is portrayed by "neutral evil", when he should be looking at Diri's impressive RP as Lawful Evil. When Cassius goes on his loco-runs which often means attacking Rangers and others more or less randomly, the action is his, and when someone else goes loco, it also stands to ground that the person in question is breaking the natural string of things. When the reality of people attacking and killing just for the sake of making the game less enjoyable for others on the grounds that they "like to attack and kill players", the game will lose players, as it already has, and when then players like Ilrahil who are part of the random killings quit the game when they die themselves, it's a proof that they don't like dying, they just like to pester others. In such cases, it would actually be better if the disruptive element was removed to allow the other players to enjoy the game.

Nemi

By the way, it is somewhat sad that Ilrahil got slain by the Calians. It would have been so much more poetic if Rangers had made him quit after what he caused.

[Bromen]

OOC here.

Isn't that the beauty of Genesis though? That Rangers can be enemies of the BDA, BDA enemies of the Spirit Circle or Mercs or even Dragon Order? It's the interactive environment between realms that makes the game fun along with different types of role play between characters. Why should I be lawful evil? I will not be the guild leader who tries to keep calm or happy peaceful ties with everyone else. Diri is handicapped by a low amount of members in her guild, I am not suffering the same penalty. As for Ilrahil, the guy will always be a prodigy that everyone will either love or hate. Cassius is the same way. They are X-factors that can turn the tide of the game and give more opportunities for role play.

-Carmelo

Btw, best pvp player in my book goes to Mersereau. We were teamed as mercs and he got attacked by some Ogre (Artagel perhaps?) and dude used his dog and skill to hunt him down in less than a minute. It was flipping amazing to see someone go into pvp beast mode.

[Hektor]

I agree with Bromen on that one. Genesis is not Middle Earth mud or Ansalon mud. It is Genesis. I remember one mage who felt it wrong to fight a pseudo-greek-spiritual-d&d style cleric as a nazgul cleric/mage/fighter/demi-god rather than fighting the wardens of westernesse... Well I like that things are not too stringent and that you can have odd guildinteractions between organizations that were never meant to meet. So more please

[Cherek]

Icarus: When I said natural enemies I was referring to Snowrose's story about a ranger being attacked and killed by a mage, and then leaving the game because he/she was not expecting it. I found it curious since if I was a ranger (I have never been) I would always expect that at least AAs and MMs might be out to kill me, and it should not come as a surprise to any player of those guilds?

Other than that I agree with Bromen and Hektor. Sure BDA and rangers arent natural enemies in any way. Neither are AA and Knights, or PoTs and vampires, or Gladiators and Mages, but war has broken out between those guilds, so why not BDA and rangers? Like Hektor said it's a dynamic world. In the end it's the players who decide who fights who, and who is allied with who. I mean theoretically knights could be "evil" and ally themselves with BDA. There's really no code that cant be worked around to make it happen. I doubt it's gonna happen though. But everything is, and should be, possible imho.

All of the above guilds (except maybe gladiators) are guilds who tend to end up in conflicts though, so I think players can perhaps help stopping fellow players from leaving the game after being killed by making sure they understand what type of guild they are joining in the first place.

There are several guilds that very rarely end up in guild-wide conflicts with other guilds for those who wish to play in peace with very little risk of being attacked. Not even the "bullies" generally just attack random people of neutral guilds.

[Mersereau]

Bromen, that was over 5 years ago. There are people who pale in comparison to anything I was ever capable of.

[Snowrose]

I mentioned the RoI killed by the mage just to point out that people were rage quitting due to similar issues before the "WAR" had started with the BDA it was not a bout a mage attacking him it was the fact he had JUST finished his pupil tasks and was in sparkle (not in any warzone) and one of the highest mages in the game oneshotted him as he walked by.

Even so yes people told him your a ranger expect combat from mages, if a youngling mage walked up hissed rped and fought him and won after an intence conflict involving potion/herb use, recieving a few dirty tricks and many spells used on both sides. I doubt there would have been the same issue as mage walks up...Blast .... ranger dies. you cant really avoid a combat like that even as a skilled ranger its not like it gives you the option to blindly panic and flee when your persued by something that can oneshot ya.

Most long term rangers wouldn't quit over being ganked there is actually some advantages to dying if your violelent from picking herbs for so long. It is mainly the new blood who have just finished tasks and have not had as much face to face ranger training as most old school rangers did. Back in my day we were properly smacked around with the healthy fear a mage could show up any where any time and gank us as soon as we exchanged our pupil robes.
while we were herbing... reading mail from pidgins... if we ever dared light a campfire...

But those were also much more dangerous times before because there were more mages of all levels back then several times durring pupilhood i was hissed at in sparkle and fled like a bunny. This gave me a good healthy expection that pvp was there and could happen. These days you never see a pc mage untill your dead and scroll back.

I am sure Avarel will be back he is old school

i hope tibor reconsiders after all a war was started for him his nemisis was killed by calians. If this was done over me id be flattered. for a few weeks genesis kinda revoved around tibor two threads were started because of tibor. he's a male Helen of troy. How often in the modern world can anyone say this war is about me and not just be narcisistic, but that is how my rpish romantic mind thinks most people probibly just think.... there are a lot of other free games out there...

As nice as the thought that any guild can war with any other. The guild alignments are big restriction in who can war or ally with whom. its hard coded if you assist evil players or kill good people you lose alignment and if your guild is sencitive to alignment you can be booted from it without notice. and good luck getting back if if booted for that reason.
so any wars with the same alignment guilds or any alliance with opposing aligned guilds have to be in rp and info only.

[Cherek]

Snowrose: Ok got it. So basically the main issue in the case with the ranger and mage was size difference and guild imbalance. The mage having the ability to one-shot the ranger due to him being so much bigger and belonging to a recoded guild compared to one that is perhaps one of the "least recoded".