Genesis Auctions on Ebay

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Icarus
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Re: Genesis Auctions on Ebay

Post by Icarus » 23 Dec 2014 20:26

Greneth wrote:Nw is not Never Winter Nights, its New World Ateraan. A highly successful Mud. Not sure how that even got mixed up when I was directly speaking of muds and comparing muds.
Nice of you to say so. NW is generally known as an abbrevation for Never Winter (Nights & Online) while New World Atraan don't even use NW only themselves, but always NWA. How were we to know you were suddenly using a new never-to-be-used-before abrrevation for the mud?
Greneth wrote:Frankly its a mute point, I suggested what other muds are doing and have been doing to keep population and grow. Genesis isnt the only mud I play, its the one I spend the least amount of time on.
Now, is Genesis had a singular work of literature as basis for the whole Donut's existence, this would be very easy to get RP fixed. People are RP'ing on Genesis, I've yet to see the character Greneth do it, but that's a mute point, isn't it?
Greneth wrote:Cash shops in Muds are proven to work, believe it, dont oh well. Muds focus on a very select niche, its not the 90s anymore. No one wants to grind on a text game, its boring. Look on any of the mud forums, hell look at the top 10 muds. Majority aint combat focused, bar Aardwolf, but thats a whole nother ordeal. Do the majority of Myths grind on here? Sure but if there is something going on RP wise ive seen most of them quit to join the fun. So maybe I am out of touch with Gen, but hey lets be sure to cater to the 3-5 grinders and wonder if an increase of population would bring back the mail reading sleepers.

Again, money talks. Its basic marketing. Product> Investors> Revenue>Advertisement> Consumers> Profit> Growth. I do it for a living, oil companies, gaming industries, farming, construction you name it. They all go through the same process and they've all grown. You keep thinking that this has to be turned into some WoW clone and thats the furthest idea from my mind. I suggest you expand a bit on your knowledge of what successful muds actually do and not graphic games.

Oh and Santa Clause is real, dead now though. Believer till the end!
And again, you're so right, we're not in the 90's anymore, and if NWA is your view of how it should be, then Genesis isn't the game for you. NWA is a game created in 2004. It's been P2W all the way. Genesis was a 15 year old game in 2004. In computer gaming terms, that be equal to building a top modern villa and saying "We made a better building than you!" whilst pointing at the ancient egyptians stating how crappy work they did with the pyramids...

So, if Greneth chooses to go play NWA or other P2W muds, please, I say, lets hold the door open. The day Genesis becomes P2W, it will be the day it finally dies. As a former wizard, and knowing quite a few others in same position or current wizards, it's been well known that one of the huge arguments for creating for Genesis is the fact that the intelectual properties are creators, but the whole use and single use is reserved for Genesis, and no money shall be made from it. Nah, Greneth, if you really need to have "cash shops" for being able to roleplay, then you go to the places that have it. On Genesis, roleplay is an option, and quite a few use their option to do so. Not all, maybe not even the majority, but a few. And cash shops on Genesis wouldn't change that, but it might result in even fewer players.

The top 10 muds on mudconnector and similar pages have one thing in common: They have spent huge amounts of money on adverticing. So, if we want to do that, we'll have to have another drive!

PS Greneth: Yes, I know, I've misunderstood you, we all have, over and over, seems like noone really understand you...
Flee you fools!

Greneth

Re: Genesis Auctions on Ebay

Post by Greneth » 23 Dec 2014 22:08

Icarus wrote:
Greneth wrote:Nw is not Never Winter Nights, its New World Ateraan. A highly successful Mud. Not sure how that even got mixed up when I was directly speaking of muds and comparing muds.
Nice of you to say so. NW is generally known as an abbrevation for Never Winter (Nights & Online) while New World Atraan don't even use NW only themselves, but always NWA. How were we to know you were suddenly using a new never-to-be-used-before abrrevation for the mud?
Greneth wrote:Frankly its a mute point, I suggested what other muds are doing and have been doing to keep population and grow. Genesis isnt the only mud I play, its the one I spend the least amount of time on.
Now, is Genesis had a singular work of literature as basis for the whole Donut's existence, this would be very easy to get RP fixed. People are RP'ing on Genesis, I've yet to see the character Greneth do it, but that's a mute point, isn't it?
Greneth wrote:Cash shops in Muds are proven to work, believe it, dont oh well. Muds focus on a very select niche, its not the 90s anymore. No one wants to grind on a text game, its boring. Look on any of the mud forums, hell look at the top 10 muds. Majority aint combat focused, bar Aardwolf, but thats a whole nother ordeal. Do the majority of Myths grind on here? Sure but if there is something going on RP wise ive seen most of them quit to join the fun. So maybe I am out of touch with Gen, but hey lets be sure to cater to the 3-5 grinders and wonder if an increase of population would bring back the mail reading sleepers.

Again, money talks. Its basic marketing. Product> Investors> Revenue>Advertisement> Consumers> Profit> Growth. I do it for a living, oil companies, gaming industries, farming, construction you name it. They all go through the same process and they've all grown. You keep thinking that this has to be turned into some WoW clone and thats the furthest idea from my mind. I suggest you expand a bit on your knowledge of what successful muds actually do and not graphic games.

Oh and Santa Clause is real, dead now though. Believer till the end!
And again, you're so right, we're not in the 90's anymore, and if NWA is your view of how it should be, then Genesis isn't the game for you. NWA is a game created in 2004. It's been P2W all the way. Genesis was a 15 year old game in 2004. In computer gaming terms, that be equal to building a top modern villa and saying "We made a better building than you!" whilst pointing at the ancient egyptians stating how crappy work they did with the pyramids...

So, if Greneth chooses to go play NWA or other P2W muds, please, I say, lets hold the door open. The day Genesis becomes P2W, it will be the day it finally dies. As a former wizard, and knowing quite a few others in same position or current wizards, it's been well known that one of the huge arguments for creating for Genesis is the fact that the intelectual properties are creators, but the whole use and single use is reserved for Genesis, and no money shall be made from it. Nah, Greneth, if you really need to have "cash shops" for being able to roleplay, then you go to the places that have it. On Genesis, roleplay is an option, and quite a few use their option to do so. Not all, maybe not even the majority, but a few. And cash shops on Genesis wouldn't change that, but it might result in even fewer players.

The top 10 muds on mudconnector and similar pages have one thing in common: They have spent huge amounts of money on adverticing. So, if we want to do that, we'll have to have another drive!

PS Greneth: Yes, I know, I've misunderstood you, we all have, over and over, seems like noone really understand you...
Ever get that feeling like you're speaking to that kid with down syndrome? Cause I do. Maybe if you believed in Santa he would drop off hooked on phonics for you.

Eh.. I forgot the A at the end, whoops. The oringal post where I say New Worlds and am talking about other muds in comparison though... yeah I can totally see how you would get Neverwinter Nights. (Thats sarcasm). It was my fault to assume you could comprehend (That means understand) that New Worlds = NW. Its-a-tough-one(sarcasm again).

Greneth use to RP all the time, back before mixed IC/OOC coversations about lag, doorbells and kids are thrown into chat during ranger pupil questions/interviews. Now he just jumps on the wagon.

The Pyramids are fun to visit, bought tickets for my family and we went to go see them. Once, it was nice. My villa however is usually packed with friends and family and they continue to come back, its always a blast.

Genesis has its own flair, but thats no reason to not use what is proven to work. It doesnt need to be a complete copy. If 40 people can continually support advertisement costs... great! No need for a cash shop. The idea was to generate a consistent revenue that can easily pay for the advertisement while giving people incentive to do so with RP items and customization.

I dont think its that hard to understand if you read it without tunnel vision, should I throw in a ranger upgrade option? Would that make it a better idea?

Icarus
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Re: Genesis Auctions on Ebay

Post by Icarus » 23 Dec 2014 22:41

Greneth wrote:I dont think its that hard to understand if you read it without tunnel vision, should I throw in a ranger upgrade option? Would that make it a better idea?
Hey, I know you misunderstood this time. But here's the recap Greneth:

- NW = New World Alteraan -> Not even New World Alteraan uses that, WA would be acceptable by their standards. New World? Sure, any new world, so... As soon as Ravenloft opens on Genesis, we're dubbing it NW. :D

- Yes, the Pyramids are fun. When your villa is as old as the Pyramids, your house might get fun too, although, I doubt your house will match them in age, and in 5000 years they'll still stand. Same goes for NWA. I doubt it'll be here, or even remotely populated at the level Genesis is now, and still be close to in another 15 years.

IF people want to RP and need items for this, there is a huge assortment of things available in the Bazaar, but you're not using those, are you Greneth? So, why would you be using things that you'd have to use real money for any more than the items already readily available?

So, this time, you DID misunderstand me, although, I'm quite sure you'll return with "you misunderstood me" again, as usual. Ofc Ranger update would be nice, but that's not part of this discussion. This discussion have moved to a stand where you claim that having cash shops where real world money can be used to purchase items would increase the playerbase and increase the amount of RolePlay. You have done so by arguing how this is the fact on "so many other muds", and repeatedly returns to naming one, NW... err, make that NWA, as it's actually correct, a 10 year old game that have, since day one, been a P2W game, and then you come and whine about how Genesis should be P2Whine as well, no thanks, we have enough people here who know how to whine for free.
Greneth wrote:Genesis has its own flair, but thats no reason to not use what is proven to work. It doesnt need to be a complete copy. If 40 people can continually support advertisement costs... great! No need for a cash shop. The idea was to generate a consistent revenue that can easily pay for the advertisement while giving people incentive to do so with RP items and customization.
"It doesnt need to be a complete copy." - Of what?

"proven to work." - Yes, it has proven to work. Game developes because people use money. In 10 years NWA have had this system, and they have now a steady playergroup of what? 100 players online at all times? What's their records?

Since Genesis is, in your own words, the mud you spend the least amount of time on, can't you just stop coming with ways to change our 25 year old game into something that WE wouldn't like, it seems you have loads of places you like more anyhow...
Flee you fools!

Greneth

Re: Genesis Auctions on Ebay

Post by Greneth » 23 Dec 2014 23:31

Icarus wrote:
Greneth wrote:I dont think its that hard to understand if you read it without tunnel vision, should I throw in a ranger upgrade option? Would that make it a better idea?
Hey, I know you misunderstood this time. But here's the recap Greneth:

- NW = New World Alteraan -> Not even New World Alteraan uses that, WA would be acceptable by their standards. New World? Sure, any new world, so... As soon as Ravenloft opens on Genesis, we're dubbing it NW. :D

- Yes, the Pyramids are fun. When your villa is as old as the Pyramids, your house might get fun too, although, I doubt your house will match them in age, and in 5000 years they'll still stand. Same goes for NWA. I doubt it'll be here, or even remotely populated at the level Genesis is now, and still be close to in another 15 years.

IF people want to RP and need items for this, there is a huge assortment of things available in the Bazaar, but you're not using those, are you Greneth? So, why would you be using things that you'd have to use real money for any more than the items already readily available?

So, this time, you DID misunderstand me, although, I'm quite sure you'll return with "you misunderstood me" again, as usual. Ofc Ranger update would be nice, but that's not part of this discussion. This discussion have moved to a stand where you claim that having cash shops where real world money can be used to purchase items would increase the playerbase and increase the amount of RolePlay. You have done so by arguing how this is the fact on "so many other muds", and repeatedly returns to naming one, NW... err, make that NWA, as it's actually correct, a 10 year old game that have, since day one, been a P2W game, and then you come and whine about how Genesis should be P2Whine as well, no thanks, we have enough people here who know how to whine for free.
Greneth wrote:Genesis has its own flair, but thats no reason to not use what is proven to work. It doesnt need to be a complete copy. If 40 people can continually support advertisement costs... great! No need for a cash shop. The idea was to generate a consistent revenue that can easily pay for the advertisement while giving people incentive to do so with RP items and customization.
"It doesnt need to be a complete copy." - Of what?

"proven to work." - Yes, it has proven to work. Game developes because people use money. In 10 years NWA have had this system, and they have now a steady playergroup of what? 100 players online at all times? What's their records?

Since Genesis is, in your own words, the mud you spend the least amount of time on, can't you just stop coming with ways to change our 25 year old game into something that WE wouldn't like, it seems you have loads of places you like more anyhow...
Eh actually its gone by both, been with them since the beginning before the player wipe. Feel free to type Greneth as a login and see what you get. But hey feel free to lecture me about the proper use after it was already explained and pretty easy to understand why I used NW. Or just ignore that part and continue with your theories, seems to be a pattern.

The reason for the items has already been explained, no you dont need them, yes people will be more interested if they are available since other muds already do. Yes its a proven fact that money brings more players due to advertisement no a cash shops not needed if 40 people can contribute enough to continually support it, yes more players brings more RP through interaction, bazaar is there also palanthas, yes they are set descriptions, yes free form is better and more appealing, no it doesnt have to be pw2 if everything is fun trinkets, pets and cosmetics, doesnt have to be a complete copy of nw"a" as thats what we were discussing (now youre not even reading your own posts), 100 some players average 260 some highest peak.

Getting old now, everythings been explained and yet you still keep going back to random points. Im all for disagreement but the blantant not even reading is just... meh.

Icarus
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Re: Genesis Auctions on Ebay

Post by Icarus » 24 Dec 2014 01:20

Greneth wrote:Eh actually its gone by both, been with them since the beginning before the player wipe. Feel free to type Greneth as a login and see what you get. But hey feel free to lecture me about the proper use after it was already explained and pretty easy to understand why I used NW. Or just ignore that part and continue with your theories, seems to be a pattern.

The reason for the items has already been explained, no you dont need them, yes people will be more interested if they are available since other muds already do. Yes its a proven fact that money brings more players due to advertisement no a cash shops not needed if 40 people can contribute enough to continually support it, yes more players brings more RP through interaction, bazaar is there also palanthas, yes they are set descriptions, yes free form is better and more appealing, no it doesnt have to be pw2 if everything is fun trinkets, pets and cosmetics, doesnt have to be a complete copy of nw"a" as thats what we were discussing (now youre not even reading your own posts), 100 some players average 260 some highest peak.

Getting old now, everythings been explained and yet you still keep going back to random points. Im all for disagreement but the blantant not even reading is just... meh.
Actually, if you should believe New World Ateraan's own website, it was "World Ateraan", then changed to "New World Ateraan", leaving the old abbrevation to be "WA" and not "NW".

Complete donations to Genesis were made by some 300 different characters, for myself that means I have five names on that list. Some will have the same, many will have fewer. Lets just say that 100 names be scrapped for this reason, and say 200 people donated. 6 years before World Ateraan, €5000 were donated. Later, a year before Ateraan, another €2800 were donated. On average, this means just under €40 a person. No demands, just a plea, nothing going to line anyones pockets, this was just to get a better gizmo, later on upgrading it, and if I've understood correctly, there's still some money left being used for smaller upgrades now and then.

NWA makes that kind of money in a few days, sure, they can pay for huge ad campaigns, sure. They also line the pockets of the owners. Would be nice, as this could mean we could hire some wizards for doing coding as a paid service, but in the end, for Genesis, making this change a quarter of a century after creation, I believe it would be a death sentence for Genesis if this were things that would actually have an impact on anything other than non-combat interaction.

But if all you want is more impressive emotes, non-armour clothes, non-combat pets, I'd say "hey, get this man a vendor and a credit card reader right now!". But even if they do install this, it will not change the RP or lack of RP of the current playerbase, and it'll sure as heck not gonna bring in money to cover any big adds unless you're a big spender...

Better yet, Lilith, code him up some goodies, easily customable and when they're ready, have him put an appropriate sum in the old Genesis PayPal account and let him have it. If more comes wanting, do it manually for starters and if enough money come in to actually pay for an automated system to work, then perhaps it have the right of life.... I doubt it, but hey, if Greneth got money to burn, let him burn some...
Flee you fools!

Greneth

Re: Genesis Auctions on Ebay

Post by Greneth » 24 Dec 2014 02:11

And I completely understand the importance of non-combat in shop. That kills games, The brute was added because frankly im sure you can count on two hands the amount of people who really enjoy questing.

Would trinkets and cosmetics reinvent the RP we currently have? It can sure add flavor but no ultimately it is up to the players, but when comparing two muds one which has said benefits and one which doesnt.. its the same as wanting to buy a ford truck yet between the two places Javiers has 50 fords and Joses has 10. Youll probably go for Javiers.

The idea was to provide something consistent. The kickstarters we have had in the past were great but an ongoing advertisement can be expensive. I just dont see us donating and reaching that goal on a monthly basis. And if lots of players is what you want a huge advertisement campaign is what its gonna take.

I think youd be surprised just what people spend for things that make them different then other characters, perhaps its just different on other muds. As they target the people who still RP on forums. Its a completely different aspect then what Genesis focuses on or has focused on. Anyone can grind on an mmorpg, what makes reading about it more exciting? Next to nothing and any good memory you have of this game I highly doubt was grinding. It was roleplaying with friends, maybe a PvP kill. But mostly roleplay, so why do we shy away from enhancing it so much and disregard anything with it?

So as soon as we begin to focus on the RP aspects of the game and how to attract people who really enjoy RPing... youll begin to see more new faces. Just what Ive been seeing happen, but I guess it all comes down to what group of people everyone wants to attract. Grinding bots or RP.

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Habiki
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Re: Genesis Auctions on Ebay

Post by Habiki » 24 Dec 2014 05:55

I just wanna know who is posting on ebay and what's for sale.

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OgreToyBoy
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Re: Genesis Auctions on Ebay

Post by OgreToyBoy » 25 Dec 2014 15:52

Habiki wrote:I just wanna know who is posting on ebay and what's for sale.
Same :)

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