Botting

[Cherek]

Amorana, its just to remove ONE way of playing, or rather they are trying to make people actually play.

Draugor - You, and everyone else, have yet to prove that they are NOT playing.

As I point out above in the 4 points I list - they are actively playing the game. It may just be that the way they play doesn't fit your narrow definition. Maybe the true heart of all of this is the jealousy over size, titles, rankings.

In my opinion, the whole game would be better off if Champion was the maximum level again and mortal rankings were removed. People would pvp more, because who knows how big someone is? And all these witch hunt threads over which guild was too over powered, what players were scripting too much would stop. Why? You'd have no way to say "that player is huge!" You'd be left wondering "are they really that big? or are they just better than me?"

I agree with you on this. And even those who do bot, and are proven to be, are also active at other times. So by punishing the bot we risk losing the active player too.

As for titles I agree it's something that we should consider. We discussed it before and I think at least a majority of people were for it though. I think we voted about it... maybe I can dig up that old thread and check. Hm.

[Amorana]

I think the problem arises when the entire team is totally absent for a substantial amount of time.

In my cases, either they are entirely absent, or they indeed are provocative by intent. From the perspective of my character, such teams outright steal from me. Paradoxally, if or when they wake up dead, they don't understand why.

How can a sentient player not understand the reason for an reaction when it's clearly apparent that he/she is the aggressor despite several warnings?

Write better scripts or end up dead.

I agree entirely with that sentiment Kas. And I know others in my own guild have outright attacked people for kill / loot stealing. If you can't write a good script, that's on you. If you end up dead because of it, that's also on you.

[Kas]

Is it possible to write scripts that bypasses the rooms I am standing in? Like, if I take a rest to recover mana, I'm technically not in a fight and therefore some team may enter and clean my targets.

I'm not fond of that either.

[Cherek]

Amorana: Rules against botting have always existed as far as I know, and has always been enforced? At least for the last decade. I don't see why this causes such an outrage right now? The rules are like they always have been, and people have, and are, caught and punished for it now and then.

Enforced? Sure, when people are doing it hours on end and completely inattentive the whole time. Dragging someone upstairs because "people complained"? Seems like giving into a lot of whiners to me.

The people checked where checked for very good reasons. No just because "someone complained". They all proved to be inactive too. Had they been at least somewhat active they would have easily passed the test within a reasonable amount of time. They seem to take it pretty well though, and we had a chat about how they play, and what they feel about our rules, without any punishments of any kind. Without anyone using caps or being very upset. It only seems to be a big deal for other people who seem to make a lot of assumptions unfortunately.

[Amorana]

Amorana: Rules against botting have always existed as far as I know, and has always been enforced? At least for the last decade. I don't see why this causes such an outrage right now? The rules are like they always have been, and people have, and are, caught and punished for it now and then.

Enforced? Sure, when people are doing it hours on end and completely inattentive the whole time. Dragging someone upstairs because "people complained"? Seems like giving into a lot of whiners to me.

The people checked where checked for very good reasons. No just because "someone complained". They all proved to be inactive too. Had they been at least somewhat active they would have easily passed the test within a reasonable amount of time. They seem to take it pretty well though, and we had a chat about how they play, and what they feel about our rules, without any punishments of any kind. Without anyone using caps or being very upset. It only seems to be a big deal for other people who seem to make a lot of assumptions unfortunately.

So (since you cut off the second half) I should take this to mean that you aren't going to respond to the point that I keep bringing up? That botting doesn't impact anyone's gameplay? We can keep dancing around the issue - but that's the point I'd really like to see addressed. Why does anyone even care (other than the typical arguments - "wha wha wha, I can't grow as fast as them", or straw man arguments.) Straw men can't be proved, and anyone can grow as fast as anyone else - they just need to write their own script to do it. Or have someone help them.

[Amorana]

Is it possible to write scripts that bypasses the rooms I am standing in? Like, if I take a rest to recover mana, I'm technically not in a fight and therefore some team may enter and clean my targets.

I'm not fond of that either.

Without knowing everyone's description? I'd say probably not. But I'd also argue that you have no room to "claim" npcs that you aren't actually fighting. Which mages like to do with the green dragon, for example.

If that offends you, by all means, attack the character. But you simply standing in the room, I would argue, does not give you the "right" to the npcs. If you are gaining mana, you aren't ready to fight them. Someone else is.

[Kas]

Is it possible to write scripts that bypasses the rooms I am standing in? Like, if I take a rest to recover mana, I'm technically not in a fight and therefore some team may enter and clean my targets.

I'm not fond of that either.

Without knowing everyone's description? I'd say probably not. But I'd also argue that you have no room to "claim" npcs that you aren't actually fighting. Which mages like to do with the green dragon, for example.

If that offends you, by all means, attack the character. But you simply standing in the room, I would argue, does not give you the "right" to the npcs. If you are gaining mana, you aren't ready to fight them. Someone else is.

Oh sure, I technically don't have any "rights".

However, my character then have little choice but to see it as an intended provocation.

[Amorana]

Is it possible to write scripts that bypasses the rooms I am standing in? Like, if I take a rest to recover mana, I'm technically not in a fight and therefore some team may enter and clean my targets.

I'm not fond of that either.

Without knowing everyone's description? I'd say probably not. But I'd also argue that you have no room to "claim" npcs that you aren't actually fighting. Which mages like to do with the green dragon, for example.

If that offends you, by all means, attack the character. But you simply standing in the room, I would argue, does not give you the "right" to the npcs. If you are gaining mana, you aren't ready to fight them. Someone else is.

Oh sure, I technically don't have any "rights".

However, my character then have little choice but to see it as an intended provocation.

Of course. RP and all. Again, I think that is within your rights.

[Chanele]

Maybe Irk plays by the rules nowadays but he reached his size through botting, he has been caught several times...I would even bet money on Irk\Morg was played by the same player, I have a log where Morg and Irk clearly misspell(not ordinary errors) same words again and again. There are more examples and yes it annoys me very much and I will tell you why.

These cheaters compete over the same limited equipment, they participate in the same guildwars, they compete over the same prey and they take alot of spots on Rankings that belong to other people but with an advantage they do not deserve. So yes Laurel, cheaters has an impact on every day gameplay.

Silly to quote myself but here you go Amorana, botting has much impact on my gameplay. They compete with me on many levels but they got an advantage they recieved through cheating. I can also make scripts and let my character gain experience while i'm off for work but I don't since it is against the rules...

[Amorana]

Maybe Irk plays by the rules nowadays but he reached his size through botting, he has been caught several times...I would even bet money on Irk\Morg was played by the same player, I have a log where Morg and Irk clearly misspell(not ordinary errors) same words again and again. There are more examples and yes it annoys me very much and I will tell you why.

These cheaters compete over the same limited equipment, they participate in the same guildwars, they compete over the same prey and they take alot of spots on Rankings that belong to other people but with an advantage they do not deserve. So yes Laurel, cheaters has an impact on every day gameplay.

Silly to quote myself but here you go Amorana, botting has much impact on my gameplay. They compete with me on many levels but they got an advantage they recieved through cheating. I can also make scripts and let my character gain experience while i'm off for work but I don't since it is against the rules...

They still have to go out and find the gear. You can beat them to it. They still have to fight other people in guild wars. Even Logg (the insanely statted dwarf) was taken down quickly, with the right tactics. They compete over the same prey - sure. But is your point here just jealousy that you aren't moving as fast? You could also script, and move along at the same speed, if the rules allow it - which, in the way these people I speak of do it (whenever I have been with them), the rules do.

To the point of mortal rankings? Read my earlier post. They're probably one of the worst things to happen to the game.