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Laurel on definition of harassment 
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Titan
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010 05:52
Posts: 451
Location: Denmark
Reading this last part of the thread, just leaves me sitting with a strange feeling in my stomach.

I've played this game for 25 years (since 1991), and I have NEVER heard of players being sexually harassed. As stated by another here, that does not mean it doesn't happen. But we need to be cautious with this, so as not to blow this thing out of proportions, or create a problem that is not there.

Ody's story is horrifying. If it is true, the player that is at the receiving end, should have reported it. The fact that this is not know by the admin, tells me that this story is just that. A story, else the victim is truly handling this in a really strange way.

Harassment is a difficult thing to define, as we all have our own, personal, definition of what that is. Just remember, this IS a game, and harassment in the real world, is very different from what harassment is in the game, as you can log out and leave it behind. There are a number of ways to handle it within the game.

The game is experiencing an influx of new players these days, which is a fantastic thing. But with this group of new players, we also see a change in mentality. A change in behaviour, compared to how we, the older group of players, are used to.

Not necessarily in a negative way, but we do need to be aware of this, when we act on various situations that we come across, or hear about.

Bottom line is, we need to keep in mind, that this is a game, and thus we should not take things as serious, as we would, were something to happen to out in the real world.

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04 Jan 2016 12:19
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@ avatar, thread

That mentality is again nothing we shouldn't advocate.

I've been on the receiving end of such harassment that ody described.

I was playing ff11, around the time the third expax came put I was chilling in the new city.

I then started to get tells from a random player. He asked if I would kick a guy in the nuts, if id do it fir money, if I like kicking a guy in the nuts.

I blocked it shrugged it off as a random troll. Then a new name same tells, blocked it, new name same tells blocked and reported. (this went on for an hour) I got tired of it and logged off. This happen every day for 3 months. I would block/ report the guy. He even became hostile and told me to admit I was a guy playing a girl, and if I didn't admit it he would report me as he knew a ff11 gm irl. No amount of blocking and reporting was stopping it and I transfer off the server.

@ avatar we are living in a time of internet wide social media, the same used to be said for school bullying and harassment. But now with social media people bring it to Facebook. Which millions of people can read and comment.

Just because it may or may not have happen doesn't mean anything, the fact it could happen is more what we should keep an eye out for.
And what steps do we have to protect players.

Like I keep saying stories like ody do happen. I've had harassment like that before, I did try to report it, and nothing happen.


Which is why I'm passionate about this subject.


04 Jan 2016 16:32
I wonder...

Did you experience it in Genesis, yet?

We all know the rules, what to do and what not to do.
We all have more or less the the same morals and ethics, and people usually know when what they do isn't nice.

I think it's fine you bring it up, as part of a thread about putting the rules on the forum.

But come on! We all get it. You were hurt before, and don't want to be again.
I don't think any of us have missed that part.

I know you probably read this like I am another thoughtless and cold idiot, but you're talking about a totally different game with a totally different playerbase. Hiding in Genesis isn't easy. There are not thousands of people and accounts. If the wizzes get on your trail, they will be able to know everything you do.


04 Jan 2016 16:55
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Joined: 16 Sep 2013 17:30
Posts: 296
Location: Dieppe, NB, Canada
Mystina wrote:
And this is the mentality I hate most of all, just because you don't see it, doesn't me it doesn't happen.

I'm sry but we shouldn't advocate this type of mentality, just makes it harder for the person getting harassed to report it.


No, my point is if this is happening, let's prove it, deal with it and move on. There's no point for speculation from a player who's played none percent of the game to get all upset because there aren't clear rule guidelines. There are general rules and they are typically dealt with on a case-by-case basis. That's good enough for us.

Cherek wrote:
Manglor: As a player I feel like you, I have never personally heard about or witnessed anything near what Ody is describing. Actually during my 18 years as a player here I have never really witnessed any type of harassment. On the other hand, I have never witnessed someone being killed, robbed or assaulted in real life either yet I am pretty sure it happens daily. And I don't need a "pic" of each case to believe it.


Sure, I get it. Just saying, let's not talk about stuff that doesn't need to be talked about, until it needs to be talked about. Then we can deal with it harshly, and move on.


04 Jan 2016 18:24
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Creed wrote:
I wonder...

Did you experience it in Genesis, yet?

We all know the rules, what to do and what not to do.
We all have more or less the the same morals and ethics, and people usually know when what they do isn't nice.

I think it's fine you bring it up, as part of a thread about putting the rules on the forum.

But come on! We all get it. You were hurt before, and don't want to be again.
I don't think any of us have missed that part.

I know you probably read this like I am another thoughtless and cold idiot, but you're talking about a totally different game with a totally different playerbase. Hiding in Genesis isn't easy. There are not thousands of people and accounts. If the wizzes get on your trail, they will be able to know everything you do.


Again, this is NOT the mindset we want, people keep using this stuff as excuses.

Same game, different game does it matter??? People are people, we can do then most saintly acts, bad cause the most devilish of despair.

Mud player bases are no different from mmorpg ones, which are no different then multiplayer games.

The same person can play any and all of these games.

I'm just bringing up examples of how low people can go, nothing more or less. It doesn't matter best game or website or forum it happens on, the fact it happens it what matters more.

Ff11 was a professional game you would think due to this harassment reporting would be better, it isn't.

To quote an anime about online gaming

Some people just like to play as a villain, they like to let their hair down at the end of the day.

Pretty much as twisted as it sounds, people Have fun harassing others, they don't care if it's against the ruled or not. And this is all ages.


04 Jan 2016 18:28
Site Admin
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
Posts: 2592
Let's calm down everyone, and not draw conclusions based on speculation and "what if's".

Fact 1: Sexual, racial or any other type of harassment will never be tolerated in Genesis.
Fact 2: There has been cases of harassment in Genesis before, there will most likely be again.

The AoP will try to deal with any reported such cases according to our rules, but harassment is a tricky subject and it will always be a on a case by case basis unless we have an amazingly long list of things that define harassment. We discussed this before, and came to the conclusion that even with a long list then we would still not cover every possible type, and people's definition also vary, so even a long list would be interpreted differently by different people. So we figured case by case is still the best way of handling it.

Please also remember that harassment needs to be proven. Obviously we take any report of harassment very seriously, but we do not discuss those cases openly here either.


04 Jan 2016 19:09
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