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Poll about a suggested anti-botting system 

Do you think the anti-bot system explained below is a good idea?
Yes! 68%  68%  [ 34 ]
No! 16%  16%  [ 8 ]
Maybe. 16%  16%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 50

Poll about a suggested anti-botting system 
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
Posts: 2548
So, as some of you noticed, Nerull (with my permission) tested a new automatic anti-bot idea in Mithas for 24 hours. As expected the test sparked a number discussions both here and in the game. Some of you encountered this in-game, some liked it, some did not, but it would still be interesting to know what everyone else thinks too. So regardless if you encountered it in the game or not, please feel free to vote.

This is the idea:

In certain grinding areas we add an automated, thematic "event" that makes all players who try to enter answer some type of simple riddle or puzzle first. This puzzle is very easy to solve if you are at the computer, but impossible if you are not. It should also be impossible to get around by triggers alone, or triggers controlled by a team leader. The idea is that this would stop both people running alone while AFK on scripts to enter, and also it would stop all AFK people in a team from entering, effectively slowing down "drone teams" with an active leader but inactive members. (Which was exactly what happened during the testing period).

The negative part is of course that even active players need to answer this puzzle when they want to enter some areas, slowing them down too. Each puzzle would be adjusted to fit the area it's in, and be placed in strategic locations where it would cause little problem for awake players, but make it very hard to successfully grind you have AFK team members for longer periods, or rely 100% on your script for all movement. Solving the puzzle takes about 5-10 seconds each time it's encountered, which would not be that often, but often enough to deter those who are AFK long periods. It could also negatively impact those who (legally) script, as they would need to adjust their scripts to "break" for actual interaction when the riddle is encountered. Other negative side effects could be that we actually lose some players, who decide not to log in at all if they can't tag along a team while AFK or semi-AFK. Thus making them play less, or maybe quitting permanently. The whole "play while working / while making dinner / while watching a movie, etc might simply become less rewarding than it is now, as access to the best grinding areas would mean you need to be at least somewhat active.

The positive sides are that it could create a world more players are actually fairly active when playing. Hopefully leading to more interaction between players as a natural reward. The chance to interact with someone is definitely greater with more players actually at the computer, or at least nearby. It would also hopefully cause less irritation between teams, as everyone in the area would be sure everyone else grinding there is also grinding actively, and will respond if you try to talk to them. Also nobody would feel there's no use in playing as certain areas are always cleaned" by drone teams, since there no longer can be drone team in these areas. Another big potential benefit is that it could be a better alternative to bot checks and bot punishments (that nobody really likes, neither us wizards nor most players), as combat bots in the well-rewarding areas would be prevented _before_ they actually can bot.

So there's both positive and negative sides about this idea. Happy voting!


11 Dec 2015 02:16
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Myth

Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14
Posts: 1393
Awesome idea

Is the puzzle different for every player? If not, it should be since its way to easy to make a so called "ask trigger" and just "ask irk answer 4321423+0424+02394" or whatever the answer would be, might want to make it 3-4 different lines too so its bitchier making a trigger to just say what hes beeing asked "blabla apears ifront of you" pattern "say blabl apears infront of you %0."


11 Dec 2015 10:00
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Myth

Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Posts: 1272
Location: Kristiansund, Norway
All for it.

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11 Dec 2015 10:06
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If you want to make it harder to bot (actually incentivize better script coders over poor script coders) - ok.
If you want to use this tool to catch botters who didn't make it (by current rules) and punish them according to new rules you might come up (i.e. attempted, but failed botting = botting) - please reconsider where you are going with this.
If you want to catch botters (in line with current bot definition) and punish them - this is counterproductive imo.

What you will get with this is:
1. people with poor script coding skills will be bothered and indeed either agree to this solution or stop playing; if they stop playing, they probably weren't overly interested in playing anyway
2. people with good script coding skills will experience little difference - are you going to punish people sharing the same scripts?
3. people who double- (and multi-) log will be bothered but won't mind

So basically who will be impacted by this and in what way is for you to decide, as it's you who is supposed to decide what types of players you favour over others.


11 Dec 2015 11:07
Myth

Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14
Posts: 1393
Laurel wrote:
If you want to make it harder to bot (actually incentivize better script coders over poor script coders) - ok.
If you want to use this tool to catch botters who didn't make it (by current rules) and punish them according to new rules you might come up (i.e. attempted, but failed botting = botting) - please reconsider where you are going with this.
If you want to catch botters (in line with current bot definition) and punish them - this is counterproductive imo.

What you will get with this is:
1. people with poor script coding skills will be bothered and indeed either agree to this solution or stop playing; if they stop playing, they probably weren't overly interested in playing anyway
2. people with good script coding skills will experience little difference - are you going to punish people sharing the same scripts?
3. people who double- (and multi-) log will be bothered but won't mind

So basically who will be impacted by this and in what way is for you to decide, as it's you who is supposed to decide what types of players you favour over others.



True true... lets just delete the major league botters, its easier and they dont bring much to the game :o


11 Dec 2015 11:24
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Titan
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Joined: 05 Mar 2010 01:05
Posts: 488
If there is a way for it to be exploited, worked around, or if it's implemented in an unjust manner, my answer is no. Then it's just a waste of code. If it's uncrackable and implemented fairly, then it's not.

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11 Dec 2015 12:16
Profile YIM
May I suggest to make polls taking into account IP, not forum account? The results heavily remind me of "votes" in dead guilds where when some people apply suddenly plenty anonymous votes are cast, while only 1-3 chars are really even logging in more often than once per quarter.


11 Dec 2015 13:14
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
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Draugor / Merserau / Laurel: The idea is for it to be uncrackable with scripts, and I agree with Mers that if it's not, it's not a good idea. I also agree with Laurel that if it's possible to script around it, it means those with good programming skills will still benefit, so that's not good either. So far I have not managed to think of a way that can beat Nerull's proposed idea by scripting it. (And no, not all safeties were implemented during the test). But we should probably "hire" a really good scripter to see if they can crack it.


11 Dec 2015 16:28
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
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Laurel wrote:
May I suggest to make polls taking into account IP, not forum account? The results heavily remind me of "votes" in dead guilds where when some people apply suddenly plenty anonymous votes are cast, while only 1-3 chars are really even logging in more often than once per quarter.


The poll wont decide if we add this to the game or not. Forums polls, or even in-game ones, are never completely trustworthy as you say. As for checking IP's, it seems like there is no such function in PHPBB, unless possibly if you add some custom code, ad even then it won't detect those who have already voted.


11 Dec 2015 16:49
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Expert
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Joined: 16 Nov 2014 23:10
Posts: 283
I know its a problem, because many feel its a problem.

Could the team-leader somehow know if his team answered?

Con:Bots! when they know they can poke/something to get attention(well, is it bad? the more times they are called back to screen, the better. Being called back often could cause them to stay as its bothersome to move attention back and forth)

pro: Me being distracted 2 mins(as if) by the wife walking in, wouldn´t be slaugthered because teamleader moved on, and didnt notice me missing in the awesome combat descriptions rolling down his screen.


11 Dec 2015 18:06
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