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What does the future hold? 
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Mersereau wrote:
Ah, once again wizards trying to strong-arm the leadership of a guild, despite a policy of no wizard interference.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Uhm. AA players requested changes to the AA guild, which wizards very quickly responded to and have started to fix. This change is not something wizards have initiated in order to "strong-arm" the leadership of a guild. Where on earth did you get that idea?

But, if you consider wizards trying to fix things requested by mortals, then we do indeed interfere I suppose...

14 Dec 2015 15:15
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Now, before this thread ends up in the flame section, here's the deal:

After looking into this, it seems like the whole thing has been completely blown out of proportion. Varian/Eowul feels there needs to be a way for the guild's members to remove an inactive or abusive leader. I definitely support this as well. I think having a way to remove guild leadership is a must, as we all know how for example inactive leaders have caused a lot of issues in many guilds. And a simple "log in every X days" system has been circumvented countless of times in many guilds, and there also has to be a way to remove a bad leader, who does things the rest of the guild simply do not like or support. Avatar has no issues with implementing such system either. So Avatar and Varian agrees on HOW the AA should change, the problem is in which order it should change.

Varian and Eowul believes if we are to give a lot more power to the leader (Avatar in this case), the system to remove the leader must also be in place. This is a system that the volunteering wizard believes is a longer and more complex task, which cannot be implemented "quickly".

Avatar feels that we could implement the other, quicker, changes now (give more power to AA leadership), and then implement the system to remove leader later.

So this whole conflict seems to boil down to this: In which order should the changes be implemented.

I understand both points of views. Both makes sense. Avatar wants to have more control so he can make the AA come alive again, which makes sense. Varian/Eowul as responsible wizards for their domain does not wanna risk having a guild where one player is given complete control without any way for other members to do something about it, should they not be happy with their leadership. Which is also very understandable.

So, everybody take a deep breath. And stop this nonsense about this issue is due to wizards trying to mess up the game, or are biased, that it is personal, or anything else silly like that. The above is the whole deal, it's a difference of opinions, but not a huge one either and if everybody just calmed down perhaps we can find a solution that everyone is happy with?

The only thing you will accomplish by continuing to attack the wizards who every day try to make this game better and respond to every mortal request as best they can, is to kill their motivation or even drive them from the game altogether. Of course you're free to complain on what we do, and suggest we do things differently, but when it turns into a thread full of assumptions and attacks on one specific wizard, where people who have no clue about what the issue is even about just jump in to continue the beating it's both mean and silly.

14 Dec 2015 15:43
Isn't this rather easily dealt with?

Until such time the remove leader/mutiny system is in place, a special mail-to thing is set up in the AA post office, and if you have complaints about the leadership you send your mail there.

Either of the wizzes then reads these mails, and act accordingly. If enough complain over how things are handled, the leadership (in this first case Avatar) is removed, and a vote or whatever is called to elect a new one.

Everything doesn't have to be coded to work, and some things just need some temporary solutions.

14 Dec 2015 16:49
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I strongly think wizards should stay out of guild politics as much as possible, history has shown it's a bad idea for wizards to get involved directly, and I think doing it would cause more harm than good. We can code systems, but it'll have to be ultimately controlled by players. I am all for a simpler "temporary" fix though if necessary.

14 Dec 2015 17:04
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I debated long, and hard, with myself about whether this thread would be a good idea. I knew it would escalate into pointless mud throwing and such, but I was at my wits end at the time, and decided to do one last attempt at drumming up some dialogue about the Angmar guild, in order to save it.

All this is about for me, is saving Angmar, and I was losing the battle, as things looked at the time, so I came here.

That was a mistake, as things quickly got personal and brought the process to a whole other level. One I am ashamed to have brought it to. For that, I sincerely do apologize to the parties involved, as it was not my intention.

Cherek summed up the current situation PERFECTLY in his post. So, as you can read from it, the process is nowhere near being dead, as the issues that people had, were based mainly on misunderstandings. Misunderstandings that had escalated into bickering, that meant people did, what people do best in such situations. We hunkered down and stood our ground.

We've gone back to behaving as sensible adult people and started communicating again, so the process is moving ongoing once again.

I have asked that this thread be locked down, as it benefits no one. Least of all Angmar, as a guild.

I really do apologize to the people involved for this thread.

Angmar! ANGMAR!! ANGMAR!!!
Pulp Znuga! PULP!!!!

14 Dec 2015 19:37
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Okay, locking thread as requested by the thread's creator!

14 Dec 2015 19:46
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