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PvP in Genesis 
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Titan
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Joined: 05 Mar 2010 01:05
Posts: 487
Kitriana wrote:
Why instead of being so negative --- why doesn't everyone try to think of reasons and ways it could work.
All I hear is .. its not going to work... bad idea... you guys are stupid for thinking it can be fixed ... why bother.. don't fix it because we like the broken version we have ... the wizards don't care...

Seriously.. I've never seen a larger bunch of defeatists in my life.


I don't like the broken version. The reality is the game is what it is. A major recode would take a lot of wizard resources, and already there are many unfinished projects. (How are those guild recodes going?)

This post goes off topic, but whatever.

I can log into other F2P games and not have to spend an hour hunting for equipment, deal with balance issues less broken than Genesis, and if I die the worst that happens is I have to pay for my equipment to get repaired. If I care to play another class I can level one much quicker there. (I do not advocate a hard level cap for Genesis.)

If I drop $15 a month or $60 one time I can get a game that gets updates frequently, rather than the slow drip of new content or fixes in Genesis. Would I pay for a subscription for Genesis? Probably not, that would create a whole different paradigm for the game, and probably not one most would be behind.

I occasionally have returned to play Genesis and it can be fun at times, but these warts among others usually creep up again and I find myself still disillusioned in regard to them.

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Last edited by Mersereau on 09 Feb 2016 01:43, edited 1 time in total.



09 Feb 2016 01:14
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
Posts: 2547
You know, a few years ago I would have been right beside you shouting about how wizards don't don't care and just don't understand how badly PVP is working now, etc. You know what, they, err, we do know.

All active wizards work daily to make this game better in a lot of different ways. We work to attract more players, to keep players, we wan't to make grinding more fun, improve the web client, improve the newbie experience, make quests more logical, and so on. We also worry about things like size differences, the often one-sided and less then fun PVP part of the game, how a mega-imbued myth ever could find a challenge in the game, and countless of other minor and major things.

It's not going to happen overnight. We're taking small steps towards a more fun game, and the last few years things have been looking better than in a while. We actually HAVE wars to argue about. Who started it? Who quit the game? Who's the bully? Which guild is most imbalanced? And so on. Honestly I think that is a positive thing. People care again. A couple of years ago we had a handful of semi-idle script bots playing Genesis at low-peak hours. Now the game is more alive than in a long time. I actually haven't heard _anyone_ say "Genesis is dying" in a long while. It used to be the most commonly used phrase on the forum in 2013 I think.

A few years ago we also had a handful of semi-active and over-worked wizards who did their best to try to keep the game running, some despite losing motivation due to the steady decline in player numbers. Now we have about 15-20 active wizards who all work on different projects. Some are doing real advanced stuff, like guilds and domains or even a brand new event, while some are taking their first baby steps in learning how to code. The Admin has two new members. Our keeper has returned. I understand you all want to see big results right away, but Genesis is just barely starting to get back on it's feet after a rather long slumber. There is still a lot of things we can improve, but if we keep getting new players, and keep getting wizard applications, then perhaps it will eventually be possible to tackle some of the major stuff too.

Then of course comes the question, what is the most important thing that we could change to make the game better? There's probably as many answers to that as there are Members in the mercenaries these days. But yes, of course the PVP in Genesis could be improved in many ways. Personally I prefer simple solutions, that are logical, and can be explained in one sentence.

For example:

- "Size cap".
- "Accelerated growth to Legend".
- "Lose one fantastic progress (for your size) and your EQ when you die".
- "Make death recovery dependent on time, not grind, or both". (as mentioned by Daerin, Chanele and others).
- "Make combat rely a lot more on skills than stats".
- "Reduce the race modifier differences greatly".
- "Cap imbues and let them be a way for small players to catch up, not a way for bigger players to soar ahead further."
- "Bring balance to the PVP abilities by Introducing more global ways to stop people from escaping".
- "First warn when you attempt to kill someone much smaller than you, and if you still do, there is a penalty for the killer as well."
- "Introduce specific "myth-slayer" items in the game that can only be used by smaller players."
- "Introduce items that can greatly boost a small player's stats for a short time." (as mentioned above).

The above all are possible things that could make PVP more fun, alone, or in combination. Now just because I am AoD and saying this does NOT mean we're gonna introduce any of them tomorrow, or ever, but Kitriana did ask for some more creative and positive ideas. I think all of the above could work to make PVP more fun. Some are easier to implement, some real hard, and some obviously have pros and cons in other aspects of the game as well.


09 Feb 2016 01:24
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Legend
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 17:54
Posts: 749
Elita wrote:
Quote:
Not if their leaders compromise them by dragging them into a war, no. :)


See I dont agree here, if in a non-neautral guild, sure. But in a neutral guild the only ones
that should be held accountable for anything should be individuals, not the whole guild. IMO


Disagree all you want. Hypothetically, if some guildleader assaults and assists others against a common
enemy or enemies, absentminded or not, sooner or later, it may backfire and ultimately compromise
his/her own members as a result.

Don't ask the enemy to show morale and limitations when a guildleader in this example have shown none.

By aiding and assisting against an enemy for some guild the guildleader team with, repeatedly, and against
various members of the enemy, odds are that the enemy will keep the guildleader responsible and later
retaliate, and one way to retaliate is through a full war declaration.

It may happen regardless of what you want or not, or what you think what is morally correct or
fair.

Currently, there is no protection against this in the game, so act accordingly.

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09 Feb 2016 01:59
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Titan
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010 05:52
Posts: 451
Location: Denmark
Quote:
- "Size cap".
- "Accelerated growth to Legend".
- "Lose one fantastic progress (for your size) and your EQ when you die".
- "Make death recovery dependent on time, not grind, or both". (as mentioned by Daerin, Chanele and others).
- "Make combat rely a lot more on skills than stats".
- "Reduce the race modifier differences greatly".
- "Cap imbues and let them be a way for small players to catch up, not a way for bigger players to soar ahead further."
- "Bring balance to the PVP abilities by Introducing more global ways to stop people from escaping".
- "First warn when you attempt to kill someone much smaller than you, and if you still do, there is a penalty for the killer as well."
- "Introduce specific "myth-slayer" items in the game that can only be used by smaller players."
- "Introduce items that can greatly boost a small player's stats for a short time." (as mentioned above).


1. Size cap would make people stop playing once they reach it. I am one of those people that lose interest, the moment I have nothing to strive for, when it comes to growth. Running around trying to RP with a bunch of people that dont want to is not enough to keep me around.

2. Not everything is about size. Accelerating people towards max level, to force them into 'endgame', whatever that is, would not serve the game well, unless Genesis wants to be a place with myths, doing 'endgame' activities.

3. Death has to hurt, to mean something. For people to care, as I state in #4.

4. Recovery on time. I don't understand that concept. Recovery is about XP. Would ones stats just magically recover over time? If so, people would just idle it away. Death has to mean something. It has to hurt, for people to actually care. As it is now, it is perfect, as people stll hurt from it, but, with a little effort, can quickly get back to where they were. In the old days it would take you a LOT of time to recover dath. Today, not at all.

5. Combat on skills is a decent idea, although it would be catastrophic. If you think people whine about guilds being overpowed now. Just wait, if that system were to be implemented. People joining guils for skills/specials now, instead of guild theme and guild RP. Just wait, if this system is implemented. People would join any guild, regardless of theme, as long as it offered them the current I-win skillset.

6. Yeah, lets make it even less important for people to pick a race. We can all run around being almost the same. As it is now, races mean something. Stat-wise and rp-wise

7. Now this one I like. I love, in fact. Imbues needs to be tweaked in a MAJOR way. As I understand it, the idea behind imbues, was for smaller players to have a bigger chance. The way it works, is that imbues is for the elitist individuals that have the coin to buy what they need, as grinding the imbues you specifically need, is insane. Maybe lower the requirements for making a workable imbuement for smaller players. Make the requirement bigger, the bigger the player is.

8. Stop people from escaping, thus making it even easier for the big individuals to slaughter their targets, Even harder for tose that suck at PVP, or just dont want to take part in PVP to excape it. Really?

9. Penalty for killing smaller individuals? So, smaller individuals get carte blanche to act like an idiot to you, and you cant do anything about it, but take it, unless you want to take a punishment for killing him/her? Some characters have to respond in certain ways due to rp as well. It would hamper their ability to rp the way they need/want to, in order for their character to be credible. Really lousy idea.

10. Uhm, myth slayer items? Not sure how to respond to that.

11. This could be a good idea, depending on length of time, size of stat boost and how this boost is achieved.

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09 Feb 2016 10:09
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Apprentice

Joined: 14 Mar 2010 12:48
Posts: 49
Quote:
Because alot of people punish others by killing them, if nothing happens, its not a punishment.


And these übermyths, who or what police their actions? And given their size no one is able to punish them or take revenge on them either. PvP is free as so many eloquently put it, which leaves them free to do whatever the f**k they want to do.

Quote:
Disagree all you want. Hypothetically, if some guildleader assaults and assists others against a common
enemy or enemies, absentminded or not, sooner or later, it may backfire and ultimately compromise
his/her own members as a result.

Don't ask the enemy to show morale and limitations when a guildleader in this example have shown none.

By aiding and assisting against an enemy for some guild the guildleader team with, repeatedly, and against
various members of the enemy, odds are that the enemy will keep the guildleader responsible and later
retaliate, and one way to retaliate is through a full war declaration.

It may happen regardless of what you want or not, or what you think what is morally correct or
fair.

Currently, there is no protection against this in the game, so act accordingly.


Again, I see the points you make here and I totally agree IF this is applied to a non-neutral guild, in a neutral
guild I dont think that the same standards as you say should be upheld at all. IMO you act as individuals in a
neutral guild and should be delt with as individuals. The DO has a council, sure, they have people appointed to
take care of applications and they have a general set of rules to follow. But that in it self does not mean that
the actions of one should create problems for the many.


09 Feb 2016 12:07
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Wanderer
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Joined: 07 Oct 2015 17:38
Posts: 50
Location: Gorlovka
So, ideas.

What would everyone think of solving it like this:

Implement a simple check of stat average in PVP that is meant to limit the possibility of engaging in it with someone of a considerate size difference.

Feedbacks to attack attempts could be easily discussed.

What does this mean?

1. No need for a stat cap.
2. A way to make PVP fair, since only partakers of similar strength will engage in such.
3. No assassination of low level characters by huge ones.
4. Promote fights between those high level characters.
5. Promote fair PVP among newcomers.
6. No need to 'boost' anyone.
7. No need to remove the quest system.
8. Everyone will have 'fun' at their appropriate level.
9. Punishments can be carried out by guild members of an appropriate level, thus promoting the importance of 'low level' members of said guilds and encourage roleplay instead of a pure focus on grinding.
10. Discourages size elitism within guilds and in the game as a whole.

If someone wishes to focus more on the social aspects of the game, upkeeping lore, taking care of the 'political' side of things, he/she is free to do so without feeling that time is being lost due to lack of grinding.

If someone wishes to grow, he/she can do so without fearing being killed by someone else for 'using their grounds'.

If someone wishes to grow indefinately, he/she can freely do so, and feel like the king/queen of the world. It will only matter to those who have similar intents.

If someone commits a crime, he/she can suffer from a loss related to the specific guild/area the crime was commited to. Said person can also be absolved by either 'offering' his/her life, getting assasinated by a member of a similar stature, or live with his/her restrictions.

Of course there will be downsides to such an implementation. A greenhorne could decide to go slapping anyone he feels like without fearing retribution. Though, honestly, is that not the case already? What stops a low level character from spitting on a myth's face? Fear of death? Please. From the myth's point of view, such a crude person could simply be ignored, his reputation tainted. He could also try to earn the respect of others by means other than fear of death.

Feasible?

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09 Feb 2016 12:28
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Titan
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Joined: 05 Mar 2010 01:05
Posts: 487
Dhez wrote:
Of course there will be downsides to such an implementation. A greenhorne could decide to go slapping anyone he feels like without fearing retribution. Though, honestly, is that not the case already? What stops a low level character from spitting on a myth's face? Fear of death? Please. From the myth's point of view, such a crude person could simply be ignored, his reputation tainted. He could also try to earn the respect of others by means other than fear of death.


I needed a good laugh this morning.

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-Mel Brooks


09 Feb 2016 13:12
Profile YIM
Expert
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Joined: 16 Nov 2014 23:10
Posts: 283
Dhez wrote:
So, ideas.

What would everyone think of solving it like this:

Implement a simple check of stat average in PVP that is meant to limit the possibility of engaging in it with someone of a considerate size difference.

Feasible?


A quick add to the idea.
To make an addition, could be like the sparkle medallion from karkadelt. You can buy a medallion for each mortal level, that puts you square in the middle, so you can punish offenders with your superior skill and tactics.


09 Feb 2016 16:33
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