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Stealing in Genesis 
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015 10:25
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Location: Sopot, PL
Want stealing , fine, just make it real:
- stealing more then 10 coins at once is unrealistic
- same to herbs
- stealing should include object weight and volume, the higher, the harder to steal
- stealing after a 1 second break - wow, thats suspicious, higher change to get catched
- stealing from closed , yup, harder and more time needed
- once catched : player who sees that is for an hour watching thiefs hands so no stealing possible from him
- catched player's hands within my purse ? I want autoattack, and no sneak out while in fight


05 Apr 2016 14:28
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Rising Hero
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morgzaash wrote:
Want stealing , fine, just make it real:
- stealing more then 10 coins at once is unrealistic
- same to herbs
- stealing should include object weight and volume, the higher, the harder to steal
- stealing after a 1 second break - wow, thats suspicious, higher change to get catched
- stealing from closed , yup, harder and more time needed
- once catched : player who sees that is for an hour watching thiefs hands so no stealing possible from him
- catched player's hands within my purse ? I want autoattack, and no sneak out while in fight


stealing from closed, i would say no.
Stealing worn purses/packs yes.

IF you want realism.
And if you disagree, search youtube for magicians and what they can steal without people noticing. It´s quite amazing.


I believe the real problem with thievery is much different. Yes we get angry when they steal our stuff, but it isnt different from when we get killed. Stealing however, doesnt reward with xp(or with extremely very little) so what will the thief do with all the nice stuff......
Here is an issue with sharing of gear between characters, as thieves are pretty much shunned in most societies, be they evil or good.


05 Apr 2016 15:18
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I know there are amazing thieves in real life. Just noticed that they steal watch (even worn one!), wallet, documents.
SMALL things! Its hard to steal something that is as big as human (platemail) or looong (sword).
And if anyone spot thief he will keep distance and not let him close again.


05 Apr 2016 19:12
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Legend
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gorboth wrote:
Heh ... my fault?

Well, I do like the idea. There could be ways to make it much more in-check, of course. For example, what if the "steal out of closed container" idea required quite a long time to accomplish? What if it took 60 seconds, with a check for detection each 5 seconds? If either player moved during the 60 seconds, it fails. Also, perhaps it can only be performed once a day by a given thief whether it fails or succeeds?

Just thoughts. I think thievery is very cool. If fighters are allowed to remove weeks of combat progress in a single whimsical pkill, why in the world shouldn't thieves be allowed to remove weeks of item acquisition progress in a single whimsical theft maneuver?

G.


Sure, but avoid the theft of entire heaps. A sensible random number from an heap would make more sense if stealing from closed worn containers.

Still, the wizards will probably get crucified when expensive imbued items suddenly starts to disappear while standing in the bank/po/auctionhouse.

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05 Apr 2016 20:12
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Kas wrote:

Sure, but avoid the theft of entire heaps. A sensible random number from an heap would make more sense if stealing from closed worn containers.

Still, the wizards will probably get crucified when expensive imbued items suddenly starts to disappear while standing in the bank/po/auctionhouse.


Well, if I knew thieves might be able to steal from my pack, I definitely would not put my super-expensive imbued item in packs, but thats me.:)

As for stealing from closed containers... it makes sense that it should be both harder and take more time than a regular inventory-steal I think, but I like the idea that it should be possible. Right know the most scary thing in the game is either an imbued super-myth, or a mage (or both at the same time!), I think exploring more thievery options (and assassination maybe??), would be interesting. Everyone, mages included, should fear a thief, and a thief should fear being discovered and hunted down by the mob. High risk, high reward. And just to be clear so we don't end up with "Cherek said an assassin guild is opening!", this is just my personal thoughts about thieves role in Genesis, and there is no assassin guild being developed.


05 Apr 2016 23:33
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Maybe this is take off topic, but I am tired of cleric who heal the damage when I am killing them. I spend weeks to hurt and they in a single crazy move do heal this all. Please just take this away.

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06 Apr 2016 00:11
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Make no mistake, I am all for making guilds fun and functional relative to their theme, and there may be many pathways in terms of design to do that.

What you want to avoid are systems that immediately ensure victory conditions by push of a button. Temporary short conditions such as stun-openers, disarms etc are fine, provided they only last seconds and suffer cooldowns/only executed as openers from stealth etc(for ambushes/assassins?).

Easily calculated combat values, which aids in making it fair and balanced.

For the imbued gear, you force it to have a much smaller duration vs the possibility of it being stolen. For imbues that may require months to create, it is bad, unless exceptions are made.

Something worth considering.

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Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

Gû kîbum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi. Akha - gûm-ishi ashi gurum!


06 Apr 2016 01:47
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Arman wrote:
I think the sort of discussions we've had about expanding the role of thieves is more around expanding their role to be more functional in achieving goals. So wizards getting cleverer about how they code areas and boss fights to take into account thief skills - whether it is steal, disarm traps, acrobatics, secret rooms/chests with locks etc. So make the role of a thief less one dimensional and useful for teams, and give players reason to have occ/lay set ups that aren't just optimising dps/dps as default.

Perhaps giving thief characters ample opportunities to express their craft against the environment might be the most important aspect given a small player base that is fiercely protective of their character's stuff? How many thieves can our population actually support? What should characters expect their loss rate to be?

Arman wrote:
Context, narrative, reality. That same person carrying around a suit of armour, realistically, should be incapable of fighting. There are lots of aspects of the game that require an element of suspended belief... Who really can carry around a dozen pole arms or suits of armour? Yes... I will agree that it would be nice to refine the realism, but I can't ever see it being a priority.

Isn't "realism" usually code for "I want this nerfed", the same way "source material" often means "power it up"?

Alisa wrote:
difference? Well, in my case more than one is needed to jump me, but this probably isnt true for all.

Good point. Perhaps there be thief skills like "distract", where the PvP manifestation of success shouldn't be a message that can be meta-gamed, but puts more challenge points in the process? Should it take a team of thieves to pull off more difficult heists?

Alisa wrote:
Stealing however, doesnt reward with xp(or with extremely very little)

Perhaps that should be changed? Wouldn't exploiting this look like griefing and be summarily punished under that model?

Kas wrote:
Sure, but avoid the theft of entire heaps. A sensible random number from an heap would make more sense if stealing from closed worn containers.

What is the justification for allowing a thief to take a whole stack of a melee character's backup weapon, but not the whole pile of potions or what have you?

Kas wrote:
Still, the wizards will probably get crucified when expensive imbued items suddenly starts to disappear while standing in the bank/po/auctionhouse.

Wouldn't the GoG hire guards/detectives to patrol their lobbies? There are combat-safe rooms, perhaps there should be some theft-safe rooms too? Also, could it be that crafted imbues are a case where playability requires special consideration in the game mechanics?

Kas wrote:
Temporary short conditions such as stun-openers, disarms etc are fine, provided they only last seconds and suffer cooldowns/only executed as openers from stealth etc(for ambushes/assassins?).

Isn't one of the main points of theft avoiding needing to do combat to take someone's stuff? On the other hand, shouldn't something be done so that NPCs aren't left without their gear indefinitely or rather until someone else has to kill them without the full reward to reset them?

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06 Apr 2016 03:20
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Kas wrote:
Still, the wizards will probably get crucified when expensive imbued items suddenly starts to disappear while standing in the bank/po/auctionhouse.


I wouldn't worry about this. AH is steal-safe area, guards do quite good job. Enchanter for most is on aliases/trigs anyway after last thief-epidemy. Most would just shorten visits there.
Imbued items from players, well, last changes flush game out of imbued players. Rarely seens by me.
Not sure if we are at point where G. wanted us to be but imbues changes a lot for sure.


06 Apr 2016 09:12
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Strider wrote:
Kas wrote:
Sure, but avoid the theft of entire heaps. A sensible random number from an heap would make more sense if stealing from closed worn containers.

What is the justification for allowing a thief to take a whole stack of a melee character's backup weapon, but not the whole pile of potions or what have you?

Kas wrote:
Still, the wizards will probably get crucified when expensive imbued items suddenly starts to disappear while standing in the bank/po/auctionhouse.

Wouldn't the GoG hire guards/detectives to patrol their lobbies? There are combat-safe rooms, perhaps there should be some theft-safe rooms too? Also, could it be that crafted imbues are a case where playability requires special consideration in the game mechanics?

Kas wrote:
Temporary short conditions such as stun-openers, disarms etc are fine, provided they only last seconds and suffer cooldowns/only executed as openers from stealth etc(for ambushes/assassins?).

Isn't one of the main points of theft avoiding needing to do combat to take someone's stuff? On the other hand, shouldn't something be done so that NPCs aren't left without their gear indefinitely or rather until someone else has to kill them without the full reward to reset them?


First question: I believe you can't steal non-heap items in one steal attempt, therefore you will lose only 1 weapon at a time. My comment is about heap objects and additional limitations to make it more sensible and fair.

Second and third question: I think both would be sensible ideas. Po for example, players could be robbed blind in the middle of writing a lenghty letter, and crafted imbues could be immune or have some other game mechanics that alerts/hinders/reveals or whatever, or special rules to steal (lenght, difficulty, stackable cooldowns etc. Many ways to Rome.).

Fouth question: Is one of the main points of theft to neutralize potential combatants? I'm not so sure about that. I would add "unprepared/careless" to it atleast, such as leaving containers wide open, untied, unworn etc. Removing an opponent from the battlefield by pushing a button + whatever combat abilities a guild have stacked on top of that could be abit...excessive, I think.

For naked npc's due to theft or otherwise, I agree. But that's just my honest opinion. For guilds with abilities that currently have the ability to permanently strip monsters for their gear and just leave them there, I would investigate into something similar as the rogue's "disarm" in WoW. Instead of dropping for example an armour (which you pick up for free), you temporary paralyze an arm wielding a weapon, rendering that attack or weapon out of commision for some _seconds_. For stealing, I also like the theft-droptables some mmo's use.

My 2 cc's. :)

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Might and Glory flaming for changing dawn, ancient power revealed of an iron crown, clear and cold and shining so far and bright, crush the world in one clash of your binding light.

Gû kîbum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi. Akha - gûm-ishi ashi gurum!


06 Apr 2016 15:48
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