What's the point - learning spell skills in Adventure Guilds

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Resnick
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What's the point - learning spell skills in Adventure Guilds

Post by Resnick » 31 Mar 2016 22:33

Hi all. I just wanted to vent my frustration about an aspect of the game. I have visited at least 3 Adventure Guilds where you can learn magic, but learning those skills are useless unless you also learn spells, which are only available if you join a magic guild. What's the point? Here I am building up all these skills, salivating on the idea that I could make a little fire here, or douse someone with water there, only to find out that it was just a waste of money.

Don't get me wrong, I know that to do serious magic you have to join the Academy or the Heralds and such. Nothing is wrong with that, but since you offered the training, I was hoping to learn something simple, a puff of smoke, a flash of light or make a tree twitch or something. Why set up the uninitiated for such a big let down

So please consider changing the system. Either remove useless skills from Adventure Guilds (and move them to other guilds where you will actually use them) or build in some simple things (that do not rival real guilds) but will make the skills worthwhile.

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Cherek
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Re: What's the point - learning spell skills in Adventure Gu

Post by Cherek » 31 Mar 2016 23:17

I understand what you mean, and you do have a point, although some of what you suggest do exist, and while there are some skills that are far more useful, I believe all skills you can learn in adventure guilds have at least some use in specific situations, including magic skills.

For example, it's not that uncommon to run into a quest that requires some form of magic to be used, and some of those magic skills are actually used then. There's also a couple of quest reward items that work better with magic skills, and there are special weapons and items that rely on your different magic skill as well. So... there are uses for it, but as with everything Genesis there is a lot of mystery, and these things you either need to figure out by experimentation or special magic detection abilities, or by talking to people and asking around.

Also, there is at least one permanent spell in the game that everyone can get access to by finishing a quest, and does not require you to join a guild, which is what you were suggesting, although I agree it would be fun if there were some more of those.

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Arman
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Re: What's the point - learning spell skills in Adventure Gu

Post by Arman » 31 Mar 2016 23:50

A very valid point Rasnick. Those skills are completely under-utilised.

I think we can do better with the magic system for players. For those that choose not to walk the path of a guided spellcaster, we can certainly create non-permanent spell items - like more single cast scrolls, which would allow for more than just cosmetic spell options for people with limited skills?

Resnick
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Re: What's the point - learning spell skills in Adventure Gu

Post by Resnick » 01 Apr 2016 03:15

OK. Thanks for letting me know the magic skills were not completely useless outside of a guild. With luck I can find a quest or weapon that benefits from it, but that seems rare.

My next question is directed to the wizards (and please don't turn me into a frog for asking). How hard is it to do something simple, but more than cosmetic? This is not a feature request, but just me trying to understand the level of difficulty it represents.

Examples:
1) Some players darken the room when they enter it. How hard would it be to make a spell that does the same (for a short time, like a minute, and cannot be recast for a while). Thus when you are fighting you can force people to blind-fight for a while which might be to your advantage.

2) A brief buff to an armour or weapon making it stronger for 2 or 3 hits. Or it could be conjuring up an item (ice shield, binding vines, whatever) that last a short time can take only 2 or 3 hits and then is gone.

3) Creating a momentary spring out of the ground (or even a rock or wall), so you can quench your thirst

In short a simple thing that may already be implemented elsewhere in the game. A weaker version (spell) can be learnt from an AG or a special character, and lasts for a short time with a timeout before it can be repeated. Maybe it could even scale with the skill level or mortal level of the player.

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Cherek
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Re: What's the point - learning spell skills in Adventure Gu

Post by Cherek » 01 Apr 2016 04:17

Resnick: Those are fun ideas, and I agree with Arman we could definitely do more with magic outside guilds. As for how hard it is to make, that probably depends who you ask. For a very skilled wizard, probably not very hard at all, for a newbie wizard, most likely almost impossible.:P

As with anything in a volunteer-run game though, someone needs to be interesting in doing this, and then they need approval by at least the Arch of Domains (me) and the Arch of Balance, which are the wizards mainly responsible for allowing new content into the game. Getting approval is for projects is usually not that hard though, but it all starts with a wizard wanting to do it.

I think it's an interesting idea to be able to learn some type of spell from someone, or perhaps buy scrolls like Arman suggested. If any wizard out there wants to explore something like this - let me know!

Resnick
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Re: What's the point - learning spell skills in Adventure Gu

Post by Resnick » 01 Apr 2016 04:26

Cherek wrote:Resnick: Those are fun ideas, and I agree with Arman we could definitely do more with magic outside guilds. As for how hard it is to make, that probably depends who you ask. For a very skilled wizard, probably not very hard at all, for a newbie wizard, most likely almost impossible.:P

As with anything in a volunteer-run game though, someone needs to be interesting in doing this, and then they need approval by at least the Arch of Domains (me) and the Arch of Balance, which are the wizards mainly responsible for allowing new content into the game. Getting approval is for projects is usually not that hard though, but it all starts with a wizard wanting to do it.

I think it's an interesting idea to be able to learn some type of spell from someone, or perhaps buy scrolls like Arman suggested. If any wizard out there wants to explore something like this - let me know!
Nicely said Cherek. You make me wish I could code well.

Thanks for sharing everyone. At least I have a better appreciation for the spell system now.

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Arman
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Re: What's the point - learning spell skills in Adventure Gu

Post by Arman » 01 Apr 2016 08:28

One other consideration is how much access to abilities that mirror guild abilities should players get without needing to pay guild tax? So apart from requiring coding, these abilities would also need to be considered from a game balance perspective.

We do have weapons and embues that mimic guild abilities like damaging special attacks. So there is a reasonable argument that similar consideration could be considered for magic spells... Especially single-cast scrolls. That is something that could be pretty easily added... I am pretty sure that is something I could pull together pretty quickly if the consensus is that it is a good idea?

trick
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Re: What's the point - learning spell skills in Adventure Gu

Post by trick » 01 Apr 2016 09:40

Arman wrote:One other consideration is how much access to abilities that mirror guild abilities should players get without needing to pay guild tax? So apart from requiring coding, these abilities would also need to be considered from a game balance perspective.

We do have weapons and embues that mimic guild abilities like damaging special attacks. So there is a reasonable argument that similar consideration could be considered for magic spells... Especially single-cast scrolls. That is something that could be pretty easily added... I am pretty sure that is something I could pull together pretty quickly if the consensus is that it is a good idea?
Sounds like fun.

Perhaps something really minor, but useful, that could be used by everyone and not so expensive so that only the larger players could benefit.

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Alisa
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Re: What's the point - learning spell skills in Adventure Gu

Post by Alisa » 01 Apr 2016 11:00

Makig something slightly usefull, and not abusefull is quite hard.

Only way i can see at the moment is to make it time restricted, maybe combined with a condition to end it.

An example could be a see in darkness.
You can only use it every 15 minutes.
It automatically dispels in the first room without darkness.
It lasts for 1-2 minutes.
This could allow younger players that wanders into dark areas without torches, to find their way out(hopefully)
It can still be abused by larger players to save them a couple of mittikna(i know, nobody uses anymore)


If its based on mana/fatigue/coins, huge players can spam it/trigger it to remain on always and gain another edge.
If you increase cost and/or base cost on the top 5 in RMC, you bar a large % of players from using it.

trick
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Re: What's the point - learning spell skills in Adventure Gu

Post by trick » 01 Apr 2016 11:26

Alisa wrote:Only way i can see at the moment is to make it time restricted, maybe combined with a condition to end it.
The darkvision you describe sounds like something that player would have always available. Sounds a bit too powerful, even if timed, after all we have a number guilds for that?
And if it is made as a scroll, buying a scroll is not much different from buying a torch.

If we are talking about one-shot scrolls, to limit their usability would be to place restriction on use frequency.
Let's say, you can use such a scroll only maybe once per hour (with a shared cooldown for all scrolls you can possibly use).

Scrolls could be some minor healing, restore fatigue, light source, maybe, some minor lightning bolt or something more interesting.
Effectiveness dependant of course on the magic skills of the user, but keeping in mind so that the scrolls would be useful for AG-level magic use.

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