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Non-flamey Size Discussion 
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Apprentice

Joined: 11 Mar 2016 10:02
Posts: 46
Perhaps players could be rewarded in a different way when you hit the stat cap, so there still was reasons to play.
Maybe special clubs, titles and such that would consume the ekstra xp and none combat items that could
make life a bit more easy or something like that.
A cap would properly also make it possible to keep "endgame" in check for all and not just the few.
Ahh they days were a splendid sword was a great to get you tough the day and magic weapons were rare. ;)


11 Jun 2016 09:16
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Titan
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010 05:52
Posts: 451
Location: Denmark
Celemir wrote:
Perhaps players could be rewarded in a different way when you hit the stat cap, so there still was reasons to play.
Maybe special clubs, titles and such that would consume the ekstra xp and none combat items that could
make life a bit more easy or something like that.
A cap would properly also make it possible to keep "endgame" in check for all and not just the few.
Ahh they days were a splendid sword was a great to get you tough the day and magic weapons were rare. ;)


The days og Splendid swords, yes. The days where Champion was the highest title, thus forcing you to appraise enemy before attacking, as you had no way of knowing otherwise....

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11 Jun 2016 09:18
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Veteran

Joined: 29 Nov 2013 02:53
Posts: 237
I say lets cap stats at Wanderer. Lets also remove all lands other than Khalakhor.

Now we have a perfect RP realm. And we can all get max size killing squirrels and rabbits and shit.

Yea! Sure will be nice for those with 32 alts they cant get past titan too.


11 Jun 2016 17:54
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Wizard
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Joined: 05 Mar 2015 03:18
Posts: 57
Here's a bit of ancient Genesis lore for the benefit of those who weren't with us 20 years ago. This discussion has been around since the dawn of Genesis. Some prior rounds of the discussion years ago led to a rebasing of stats and an adjustment of the growth curve which in effect served as a soft cap. Many players quit as a result. One day you're able to kill a lethal evilfaced draconian, the next day your stats got nerfed and the draconian kicked your butt -- many players just didn't feel like grinding back to where they were. This was when the handful of largest players were around current day champion sized and myths were truly non-existent. To the wizard community's shock the remaining hardcore grinders responded by stepping it up a notch and became even more hardcore grinders. Hence every time someone brings this topic back up among wizards, old fogey's like me quickly remind folks that we did a round of this once and it didn't turn out so well.

That said, we did make some changes to address the issues that Ody brought up. First and foremost we nerfed abilities that were specifically designed for PvP combat -- dragon fear used to paralyze completely. Second we reduced the death penalty and implemented death recovery to reduce the pain of dying. Lastly, we did a wholesale rebalancing of the guilds using very quantitative methods.

For what it's worth most of the game's content is geared towards expert through champion sized players. Legends and myths are a relatively recent occurrence hence there hasn't been a lot of content created for them. There are still many secrets out there for hero sized characters so go out there and explore.

Last thing, getting chased every once in a while isn't a bad thing. If you find yourself getting chased down too often maybe you should try a bit of stealth and subterfuge. There are many creative ways to take down or force a draw with a big player, you just need to use your imagination and try it. This is exactly why the wizard community made the death penalty less costly. If I remember correctly, a clever kender once took down a big bad Nazgul in a PvP encounter. I believe the Nazgul in question still feels a bit sore about the incident.


11 Jun 2016 18:13
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Joined: 16 Mar 2015 19:29
Posts: 203
what am i? Old or young player haha. Im 40 but i think i play as long as Ody maybe a little bit shorter idk. So lets count me in with the younger players ;). I do understand what Ody means. For me the problem was my level of brutality, so i can not grow fast. At a certain level rising hero+ quests are harder and longer, and (same as Ody) one get a certain responsibility in a guild that takes a lot of time. Also in a house with 4 kids its not always possible for me to focus long. I know other mothers and probably fathers as well are having the same problem.
What is a problem for me is that that xp from quests is lower than the xp from hunting, herbing etc. Also the very limited fast quests are a pity.

Now ive mentioned this before: i have been playing runescape, this game had the same problem as we have now. Now runescape is almost only played by (very) young people who cannot wait for xp, who dont have the patience to work for a level, so there was a lot of botting going on there. They solved it by doing events where everyone could get xp. This game its events dont work for me. Ive tried it twice.
It ended up with lots of hours of waste time to see that some older player ive just explaned the game to only took half an hour to get higher than me (yes you Bonk). Not that i dont appreciate the effords of the wizards really i do. But these events dont work for rising heros or heros. And i wouldnt be surpriced that in the younger team someones second character wins ;).

If we have a change of more and fast quest xp the problem would be solved for a great deal.

Now one more point: i dont mind that someone who is playing for 15 years can kill me in 3 hits. They deserve it to be that big for playing 15 years! The rangers where dragged in the war with the bda too and we couldnt stand a change. Not only because we are nto the strongest guild in the game (we all know that) but also because of the size difference. At first it was very frustrating not to be able to quest and hunt and be killed by a player who is not a socalled natural enemy, someone who i had no personal problem with. But later when we found a way to escape from them, well it made me proud of my guild to find a way to use our skills and tactics to survive.

So lets say the wizards will react and say oh my what a good idea lets do that... They wont because ive mentioned before and a wizard immediately told me " sorry but no we wont do that" . But lets say they do... then we still have the problem that we do not have enough wizards to repair this game. I cant code, and a lot of people simply dont have the time. But maybe there are other ways to find people to do this. For example interns? maybe they get studypoints for it? Or we simply pay people to do it. I wouldnt mind contributing, i love the game, but paypal doesnt work for me.

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11 Jun 2016 18:23
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Titan
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010 05:52
Posts: 451
Location: Denmark
Ckrik wrote:
Here's a bit of ancient Genesis lore for the benefit of those who weren't with us 20 years ago. This discussion has been around since the dawn of Genesis. Some prior rounds of the discussion years ago led to a rebasing of stats and an adjustment of the growth curve which in effect served as a soft cap. Many players quit as a result. One day you're able to kill a lethal evilfaced draconian, the next day your stats got nerfed and the draconian kicked your butt -- many players just didn't feel like grinding back to where they were. This was when the handful of largest players were around current day champion sized and myths were truly non-existent. To the wizard community's shock the remaining hardcore grinders responded by stepping it up a notch and became even more hardcore grinders. Hence every time someone brings this topic back up among wizards, old fogey's like me quickly remind folks that we did a round of this once and it didn't turn out so well.

That said, we did make some changes to address the issues that Ody brought up. First and foremost we nerfed abilities that were specifically designed for PvP combat -- dragon fear used to paralyze completely. Second we reduced the death penalty and implemented death recovery to reduce the pain of dying. Lastly, we did a wholesale rebalancing of the guilds using very quantitative methods.

For what it's worth most of the game's content is geared towards expert through champion sized players. Legends and myths are a relatively recent occurrence hence there hasn't been a lot of content created for them. There are still many secrets out there for hero sized characters so go out there and explore.

Last thing, getting chased every once in a while isn't a bad thing. If you find yourself getting chased down too often maybe you should try a bit of stealth and subterfuge. There are many creative ways to take down or force a draw with a big player, you just need to use your imagination and try it. This is exactly why the wizard community made the death penalty less costly. If I remember correctly, a clever kender once took down a big bad Nazgul in a PvP encounter. I believe the Nazgul in question still feels a bit sore about the incident.


Very good post. I almost quit after that stat change as well. After sulking a bit, I went at it again ;)

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11 Jun 2016 18:24
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Site Admin
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
Posts: 2712
Well, one could always argue that the previous stat nerf was simply not "good enough" since players broke through it and grew to sizes far beyond anyone's expectations anyway? Perhaps it is not proof that it was a completely bad idea, perhaps it was simply not implemented "correctly"? It all depends how you see it and what type of game we want.

If we want a game where grinding and reaching new stats and levels is the most important thing then perhaps PVP should be a lot more restrictive than it is now? So most players can enjoy the game in peace, regardless of level?

If we want a game were PVP is a big part, then players need to be a lot more equally matched for it to be truly fun.

I think it's hard to have both, which is kind of what we have now, and why there is so much discussion and complaints about this, and have been for many years. It probably the most discussed topic on these forums the last few years.


11 Jun 2016 20:09
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Myth

Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14
Posts: 1681
How about making statimbues etc not give THAT huge a bonus for big players? Make them scale like hell on higher levels and if you are around... lets say [myth++] str, give next to nothing? That would make it more newbie friendly and the more imbues of a kind you have the less it gives?


11 Jun 2016 20:16
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Myth

Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14
Posts: 1681
How about making statimbues etc not give THAT huge a bonus for big players? Make them scale like hell on higher levels and if you are around... lets say [myth++] str, give next to nothing? That would make it more newbie friendly and the more imbues of a kind you have the less it gives?


11 Jun 2016 20:16
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Veteran

Joined: 29 Nov 2013 02:53
Posts: 237
Quote:
Well, one could always argue that the previous stat nerf was simply not "good enough" since players broke through it and grew to sizes far beyond anyone's expectations anyway? Perhaps it is not proof that it was a completely bad idea, perhaps it was simply not implemented "correctly"? It all depends how you see it and what type of game we want.


Getting to size and mudsexing and gear grinding ? I can do both of these with pics in diablo III or Path of Exile. And those are far better games. Path of Exile is so challenging and the loot system so deep as to be endless. Genesis is very small and boring sounding with no growth. RP is way more solid in Genesis. Growth is way more fun. Gathering loot in genesis is rather boring. Hey I got to (hard cap probably already am too) ... lets go get an BMP and .... hmm oh I kill the mobs for ? nothing? ... loot and all that in genesis would so have to change to give a hook .... growing is a major hook imho so removing it and well yawn. Guess it is good for the guys with tons of alts to titan though. Long live guild infiltration RP?

Day 2 ... lets get a bmp and kill trolls ...
Day 3 ... lets get a bmp and kill trolls ...
Day 4 ... ooh I got a fullplate and killed trolls
Day 5 ... ooh I got bubba armours and killed trolls ....
Day 6 ... stats ... You are the same fucking size! yawn

Also dont forget, we could make getting max quest xps easier for completing a certain percentage of the quests. Which would be massive for parity. But playing a game where if you put lots of time in and you are on par with the guy who puts in a few hours a day? Is there one? Sims?


11 Jun 2016 20:44
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