Non-flamey Size Discussion

Discuss general game topics or anything else that doesn't fit in the other forums
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Thalric
Adept
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Thalric » 05 Jun 2017 22:13

And stop going AFK whenever you join a team! That is just rude!

If you can't assist on the things being fought, your job is being entertainment.
Talk and roleplay. Unless, of course, nobody in the team responds to you.
But you're not the one who stops interacting or talking first!

Actually.. it also goes for people who can assist.
Don't go afk unless you say to, and don't do it for long periods of time.

Dorrien
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Dorrien » 05 Jun 2017 22:44

Thalric, if they go AFK too often just let em die somewhere. Decent entertainment, especially if you try to get creative with it (I would list some options but we don't want them overly prepared do we?). Can lead a horse to water, but you can't make em drink. I see choices made daily that hinder *growth rates*, like joining teams only to go AFK. That will get you A) kicked/barred from that team and/or B) Killed. Or sitting at a church waiting for SOMEONE to guide you out of the ignorance within. I forget who but a comedian said something similar to this: If you want help, help yourself. People like to see that.

Thalric
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Thalric » 06 Jun 2017 11:19

Can someone moderate this, or move parts of it to the flame section?
I think we have a deviation from the original course...

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Avatar
Titan
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Avatar » 06 Jun 2017 12:07

Zedex wrote:
Amberlee wrote: It would quite simply chase away WAY too many old players as they would have nothing to gain anymore.
And what is wrong with that? As long there is steady influx of new players it really doesn't matter and in a way can be beneficial to the game.
That makes sense. Us old timers that have a proven dedication, should shut up and make room for the new generation.

A generation that, generally, have an attention span of a toddler.

That makes sense. Not insulting or disrespectful at all. The new generation seems to want everything we have, at no noticeable cost. We've WORKED for YEARS to achieve what we have. Be it knowledge, stats, money etc.

We did not have messenger apps, forums, web pages, maps and such where we could go to get all the info needed. We learned it the hard way. THAT was what made the game fun. The mysery and the process of playing it, to learn what was out there.

I am SO tired of reading comments that tells us old peeps to get with things or sod off. How about you newcomes respect the game you have decided to play instead?
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Kitriana
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Kitriana » 06 Jun 2017 13:46

Avatar -- while I certainly can respect the idea of not wanting to discount, denigrate, diminish or destroy what old players (like myself) have achieved over time through discovery etc...

One needs to seriously look at the issue of PVP between those players and the new ones who have come to genesis recently. What kind of solutions would you suggest in order to level the PVP playing field between those two groups.

If one assumes that the soft cap remains - and there is this never ending grind that some older player continue on .. there is absolutely ZERO possibility for new players to catch up unless those older players would take a hiatus for a few years... and even then I'd say its questionable. I'm not saying new players should work hard to achieve myth. They should.

But if you want to create an environment that is balanced in terms of PVP ... its not possible with the current model. So what can be done that would allow for a balanced environment for PVP?

I think we need to stop looking at this conversation as being an attack on older players and the time/effort they've put into the game .. or an attack on younger players and their "laziness" as some have put it... and start thinking about the viability of PVP and the sustainability of the growing playerbase in that dimension.

Honestly -- if one takes out PVP --- i doubt anyone would give two copper coins about whether there was a hard cap or soft cap. or how the grind effects stats. To me this question is purely about how size effects PVP.
If something I wrote sounds confusing ... assume you misunderstood it.

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Titan
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Avatar » 06 Jun 2017 13:51

Kitriana wrote:Avatar -- while I certainly can respect the idea of not wanting to discount, denigrate, diminish or destroy what old players (like myself) have achieved over time through discovery etc...

One needs to seriously look at the issue of PVP between those players and the new ones who have come to genesis recently. What kind of solutions would you suggest in order to level the PVP playing field between those two groups.

If one assumes that the soft cap remains - and there is this never ending grind that some older player continue on .. there is absolutely ZERO possibility for new players to catch up unless those older players would take a hiatus for a few years... and even then I'd say its questionable. I'm not saying new players should work hard to achieve myth. They should.

But if you want to create an environment that is balanced in terms of PVP ... its not possible with the current model. So what can be done that would allow for a balanced environment for PVP?

I think we need to stop looking at this conversation as being an attack on older players and the time/effort they've put into the game .. or an attack on younger players and their "laziness" as some have put it... and start thinking about the viability of PVP and the sustainability of the growing playerbase in that dimension.

Honestly -- if one takes out PVP --- i doubt anyone would give two copper coins about whether there was a hard cap or soft cap. or how the grind effects stats. To me this question is purely about how size effects PVP.
I understand where you're coming from with this, but the thing is. Genesis have alwas had this issue with difference in size. Even back in the day.

The game have always had toons that were MUCH bigger than the rest of us, and we've all managed to play 'around' it. Why should it be any different these days?

The difference is there, as it always have been.

If one wants to look at a 'solution', then a global war system would be interesting, where a pkill would hurt the player in other ways, than their size. Something along those lines.
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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 06 Jun 2017 13:55

Actually I think it effects people who want to power play as much as / more than those who want to pvp. Pvp you can always look to out number them, find allies just as big etc.

Power playing you kinda want to be the biggest.
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Kitriana
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Kitriana » 06 Jun 2017 14:06

I think the difference in the past was the gap between those who are "MUCH bigger" and those of general size wasn't nearly as big as it is today. Lets not forget that Champion of yesteryear is Titan (I believe) of today. So while it was perhaps easier to work around in the past .. I'm not sure the same can be said of today's gap and the ability to work around that.

In terms of solutions - I have certainly been a strong supporter in the past of different penalties for Pkills than size/xp of the one killed. But I think you also need to think about solutions of how smaller myths will be able to go after mega myths. Is that honestly feasible today? I have no idea as to the practicality of being able to pkill a mega myth like Irk, Celephias, or Mumon. (i'm just choosing characters who I know are rather big .. no specific angst towards them is implied). Is it feasible? How does this play out in guild choices that people make? how does it play out in guild wars?

Tarax --- I honestly don't really give a rats ass about people who want to powerplay and be the biggest. From that perspective .. if you came to Genesis later ... oh well.. you're not going to be the biggest and baddest. For me its way more an issue of practicalities of PVP.. guild membership ... being able to properly RP being a threatening force and defend your guild.

I am curious about how a solution that would allow you to continue to grow as big and bad as you wanted .. but that when it came to PVP there was a hardcap in that arena alone. So if you engaged in PVP fight.. there would be some max myth level you'd have to fight at.
If something I wrote sounds confusing ... assume you misunderstood it.

Thalric
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Thalric » 06 Jun 2017 15:18

Actually.. the old champion started around today's expert.

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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Non-flamey Size Discussion

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 06 Jun 2017 15:22

Champ of yesteryear is a bit below expert.
The small group of very biggest champs would have been just pushing titan.
The BIG champs were around rising hero / hero.

As a legend vs a pumped up myth I could beat Irk solo when I had better equip.
End up chasing him around, till he got away, as killing anyone solo is hard.

But big myths aren't unkillable at all.
Lets put it in perspective, with an easy to understand example.
Killing a well prepared myth is like killing the frost giant.
Will take a similar amount of smack down.

Barash-gund, yeti, sybarus's biggest ogres etc are tougher than any player.

The balance problem is that goodies are currently weaker than evil.
And no one has any interest in making things a "fair fight".
So it is more like you have to go up against the frost giant who brought along the dragon emerald for nice dps and brought urian along to stun you as well.
When teams like that meet, players die. Just the good side can't field one it seems?

I think the goal of speeding up growth of newer players but not devaluing the top levels was best expressed in the idea for caps for brutality for lower levels.
But this idea didn't do so well in the voting, so maybe not that many people care?
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