Genesis Forums

Dread wrote:

Draugor wrote:As far as I've been told, there is a formula that makes the powerfull,but not like in the past since they are getting some drawback for some plus etc etc, its not like before, all pwoer.

I would have to strenuously disagree.

Hey, its the official version Its whay the new system is supposed to be atleast

Mersereau wrote:Hopefully all new magic guilds are balanced and scrutinized heavily. There's been problems with that in the past.

The problem with coding magic guilds in the past is they were notoriously hard to make, so everyone made them differently, which made them even more notoriously hard to balance - for just about any definition you want to use for "balance". It didn't take much for a lot of them to go from gimped/underpowered to overpowered or back with a couple of tweaks/additions/caps. Often fixing was in the "too hard basket" and would either require a complete recode... or more likely them being closed.

Having all the magic guilds transition over to the "new magic system" means that all magic guilds are required to use the same foundation. Its easier to review, and the benefits are easier to measure. You are comparing oranges with oranges, and using a consistent orange measuring system (how's that for an analogy?). Along with comprehensive beta testing it gets more scrutiny than most guilds.

Are new magic guilds balanced? Yes. But "balanced" is a subjective concept, and what the administration's vision of what the scope of balance involves is one that some may think is either restrictive or not restricted enough. For the SoHM, the beta testing indicates it is where we want it in the spectrum of balanced .

Anyway, this tread is getting hijacked...

Draugor wrote:Hey, its the official version Its whay the new system is supposed to be atleast

Heh. I have heard of missing the mark, but I have never seen someone actually miss the postcode they were aiming for, as it is with a certain guild's balance.

Arman wrote:

Mersereau wrote:Hopefully all new magic guilds are balanced and scrutinized heavily. There's been problems with that in the past.

The problem with coding magic guilds in the past is they were notoriously hard to make, so everyone made them differently, which made them even more notoriously hard to balance - for just about any definition you want to use for "balance". It didn't take much for a lot of them to go from gimped/underpowered to overpowered or back with a couple of tweaks/additions/caps. Often fixing was in the "too hard basket" and would either require a complete recode... or more likely them being closed.

Having all the magic guilds transition over to the "new magic system" means that all magic guilds are required to use the same foundation. Its easier to review, and the benefits are easier to measure. You are comparing oranges with oranges, and using a consistent orange measuring system (how's that for an analogy?). Along with comprehensive beta testing it gets more scrutiny than most guilds.

Are new magic guilds balanced? Yes. But "balanced" is a subjective concept, and what the administration's vision of what the scope of balance involves is one that some may think is either restrictive or not restricted enough. For the SoHM, the beta testing indicates it is where we want it in the spectrum of balanced .

Anyway, this tread is getting hijacked...

I am waiting with bated breath for a couple more "balanced" magic using guilds...

I will agree with you insofar as this thread is hijacked, and to comment on the intended subject I think it would be a great thing indeed if other races saw more use. Whether or not another guild possibly opening helps that remains to be seen. I don't think the issue can be called fixed if we just go from all goblins to all goblins and elves.

Dread wrote: I am waiting with bated breath for a couple more "balanced" magic using guilds...

I will agree with you insofar as this thread is hijacked, and to comment on the intended subject I think it would be a great thing indeed if other races saw more use. Whether or not another guild possibly opening helps that remains to be seen. I don't think the issue can be called fixed if we just go from all goblins to all goblins and elves.

My opinion is that by adding this guild it will help fill a gap that has been missing from Genesis for a long time... which will help with the bigger picture balance of the game.

The race discussion is one that has been around since Genesis begun. How it was explained to me, was that race was never meant to be cosmetic, that your racial choice should be meaningful. If I had a dime for every time it was discussed _how_ race stats should be attributed, i'd have a lot of dimes! In my opinion, I don't think that is going to change.

But there are other issues outside of stats which are restricting certain races being chosen... a big one being limited playstyle choice for certain races. In the past, dwarves didn't have any option to play a traditional dwarf. Their options were either being a gladiator, or angmar. A lot had to rely on roleplaying through the rockfriends. That was the big driver for me developing the Neidar Clan, to provide a playstyle for dwarves that suited that race.

Gnomes and elves are highly suited to magical guilds, but compared to combat guilds their options are highly limited.

Gnomes and hobbits are currently two races lacking options more broadly. Krynn created a kender occupational guild that is based on the hobbit race, but that is a really niche race, and doesn't satisfy those hobbits who would prefer to play a more traditional halfling rogue role.

Gnomes have been stereotyped as tinkers and inventors largely by the only gnome racial guild in the game. This doesn't suit everyone's tastes. I know Faerun are looking at expanding the options for both gnomes and halflings.

And yes, stats will play a role in people's racial choices. However I think since the creation of the Ogres guild it has opened a window of possibility that highlights that racial base stats don't necessarily have to be set in stone, and possibly racial guilds could play a large role in catering to play styles.

Could racial base stats change depending on racial guild decisions? Could a gnome base character who decides that want to be a deep gnome and join the respective racial guild find themselves more physically inclined than mental - more like a dwarf? Or an elf who decides to become a drow or wild elf finds themselves more physical but less wise? I think that could be a fun addition, particularly for those neglected races... and could soften some of the angst around the "balance" of certain races. But that sort of thing is for the admin to consider whether it aligns with the broader direction they want the game to go in.

Good point Arman. I personally would like to see small modification of base race stats in case someone will choose any new sub race like orc, drow, kender, half-elf, hobgoblin or my lovely minotaur. That changes could be small, something like 5% to baseAn races, but thanks to this there would be more other choices. And since some races are only "Palanthas" races some other has their guilds, so the Ogre case could be used as well.

I will repost my question, since wizards who posted in this topic are roleplaying politicians and are avoding a straight answer

Do you think race stats are balanced? Especially the fact that goblins don't have any drawbacks in combat stats.

Rincon wrote:I will repost my question, since wizards who posted in this topic are roleplaying politicians and are avoding a straight answer

Do you think race stats are balanced? Especially the fact that goblins don't have any drawbacks in combat stats.

As a fighter. No, goblins are terribly balanced.
As a mage? Still terribly balanced but in a shitty way.