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The case for "Title System Reform" 
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Myth
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Joined: 09 Mar 2010 20:33
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This title might be a little cryptic to some and I wanted to elaborate on the reasoning.
Edit: Changed the name from "A Separate Brute For Guild Exp" cus that didn't explain the idea well.

So when I first played Genesis it was the old mortal level system and pretty everyone was a champ. Guild titles were used as a kind of way to guess who was a big champ.
"Ohhhhhhh they are a SMG, must be a big champ!" Supreme Master Gladiator

Titles should be meaningful and you should have to put the effort in to get to top ones.

And in days past before recovery that is the way it was.
If you got to a high level of brutality it got especially difficult.
And there were cases of players killing themselves on purpose to make it go faster.
With no recovery!!!

But aside from sounding cool and feeling badass. The power of guild specials are often effected by how much guild stat you have. Or some specials aren't even available till you have enough guild stat. That is more the real reason behind why a player would be willing to set themselves back months and years worth of playing, to ultimately be more powerful at the end.

So then came the recovery system and turned everything on its head.
If you want to use / abuse this system you can reach any guilds top title in a dramatically short time. So being in a guild for ages and loyal no longer counts for anything, as someone joining on recovery can get to the top title in a day. Seen it happen. There is also a handy scar removal cream you can buy in Drakmere so you don't have to look like a lemming idiot.

Why should recovery boost your guild stat?
It devalues the title system entirely.

But the old system was also broken, that a low character brute allowed you to rise faster than someone huge using the guild skills hundreds of times more for the same effect.

There is definitely room for a system that is fairer to all and give top guild titles more meaning again.

Changing guild experience growth to have its own brute separate to character brute was one suggestion.
Pros.
Everyone is on the same system
Can't be abused by recovery
High character brute players an have advantage compared to original system
Cons.
Low character brute players have a disadvantage compared to original system

One other really cool system is that of the Ogre guild.
The guild has a unique ability and using that and only that can raise there title, get them access to higher skills, discounts etc
Big players do have an advantage but smart smaller players can easily still be competitive.

Before the ogres even was the grunts guild. Title based on total kills since joining.

Could base it on all sorts of things.
Total health damage dealt.
Total mana recovered.
Number of items forged.
Number of times u used ur special attack.
But a level playing field is the goal surely?

Do you agree?

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25 May 2017 19:37
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Myth
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Like if the requirement for the top gardener title was finding 400,000 herbs if might actually be a meaningful accomplishment.

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25 May 2017 21:01
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Adept

Joined: 27 Jan 2016 18:42
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Tarax the Terrible wrote:
So then came the recovery system and turned everything on its head.
If you want to use / abuse this system you can reach any guilds top title in a dramatically short time. So being in a guild for ages and loyal no longer counts for anything, as someone joining on recovery can get to the top title in a day.


this
sad

someons is already say on this here

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25 May 2017 21:24
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I like the "number of times special used"..

means that it matters about time played, not logged in.
and it gives everyone the same thing to go for, nobody being cheated.

smaller players hunt smaller stuff, and so on.
the more you play, the more you rise.

I also never understood how smiths could raise their title with combat, and become mythical smiths without ever forging anything.


25 May 2017 21:27
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Myth
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Joined: 09 Mar 2010 20:33
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Sykil wrote:
Tarax the Terrible wrote:
So then came the recovery system and turned everything on its head.
If you want to use / abuse this system you can reach any guilds top title in a dramatically short time. So being in a guild for ages and loyal no longer counts for anything, as someone joining on recovery can get to the top title in a day.


this
sad

someons is already say on this here


I know, saw that, I cant help but agree.
And others been saying it for a much longer time too.

The fact it is possible just makes me disregard most newer faces with top titles unless I know they "earned" them.

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25 May 2017 21:33
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Wizard
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I refer to it as gaming the title system. SoHM a perfect example of fast tracking titles through the recovery system. But it has also resulted in wizards thinking about how they can be creative in how their guild title systems work.

Wizards of High Sorcery levelling will be completely separated from guild stat, the recovery system, and brute. Holy Order of the Stars will only have a very limited influence of guild stat. And I reckon other guilds will evolve over time too!


26 May 2017 01:04
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Myth
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Arman wrote:
I refer to it as gaming the title system. SoHM a perfect example of fast tracking titles through the recovery system. But it has also resulted in wizards thinking about how they can be creative in how their guild title systems work.

Wizards of High Sorcery levelling will be completely separated from guild stat, the recovery system, and brute. Holy Order of the Stars will only have a very limited influence of guild stat. And I reckon other guilds will evolve over time too!


Bravo.

If all guild power, training limits, access to skills/spells etc etc is separated from guild stat too and linked to titles that will be another addition to the nice list. Leaving guild stat simply as the tax mans account for his records. Excited to see how it works...

Fixing recovery gaming of the system now would be a bit like shutting the door after the horse has bolted.
So nice to hear its on the wiz radar and threre are other ways forward.

I'm sure this causes extra work, hard enough thinking up a structured set of titles never mind having to design a complex achievement system to boot.

A suggestion for more movement to a meaningful title system, start with craft guilds

Gardeners
If the journal has info for total number of herbs found could use that.
It does have list of herbs found, could make that a component.
Having to find nearly every herb in the game for the top title. Omg what a task!!!

Smiths already tracks total forged counts.
Mythical smith = u have forged enough of every item that they are as good as can be.
This would give players something to really strive for + provide a nice feedback loop

Mariners
Add a new top title, to get it start everyone from zero. Can still get old top from just grinding.
But for new top Track blood sea events like killing a dragon turtle shark harpy other ships captains
Put it on a similar scale of endeavour to the epic requirements for smithy and gardener
Give perks for progress towards top title.
Like their own custom ships
Equipment for the ship like something that gives the ability to check what the creature in the water is etc
A crystal bottomed boat lol

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26 May 2017 01:20
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Site Admin
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The guilds I have coded also don't worry too much about guildstat. In Mercs half of your title is based on how many master trainers you have found for adaptability. In Ogres ... well, good luck getting to the top title there. Harley can tell you how hard that is (he isn't close to it yet himself.)

G.

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26 May 2017 17:18
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Myth
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gorboth wrote:
The guilds I have coded also don't worry too much about guildstat. In Mercs half of your title is based on how many master trainers you have found for adaptability. In Ogres ... well, good luck getting to the top title there. Harley can tell you how hard that is (he isn't close to it yet himself.)

G.


Omg seriously? Grunts x 100,000!!!
Is great the black corporal position is there cus no one going to catch him soon.
I did some sums once what would be required to compete with him them gave up immediately as if I tried I'd be fired divorced etc
Shame their guild team special is underused, but everything else working great.

Adaptableness yeah nice component and guru quest.
And there are other guilds where ur stats make up a part.
like Minos AA etc
All these are nice. Good job. Genuinely.


Just a shame there are guilds like blademasters and necromancers were power is directly linked to guilstat.
Huge f'ing amounts of it.
Screw high brute no recovery people.
That's their problem sucks to be them.

Anyone voting for this its a wasted vote, message received.

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26 May 2017 21:40
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Great Adventurer
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Joined: 06 Mar 2010 14:39
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Tarax the Terrible wrote:

Just a shame there are guilds like blademasters and necromancers were power is directly linked to guilstat.
Huge f'ing amounts of it.
Screw high brute no recovery people.


Ever tried Minstrels?

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28 May 2017 22:38
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