Okay, time to fix this -.-

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Mersereau
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Re: Okay, time to fix this -.-

Post by Mersereau » 03 Jul 2017 11:24

I knew a high ranking wizard would come defend this with a false analogy.

Playerfighting is clearly stated in the rules. Harrassment is clearly stated in the rules. Bug exploitation is in the rules.

There are areas where pvp is not allowed.

There are no areas where theft is not allowed.

Most people here would agree it's easier to avoid pvp than having a thief spam you, take your items and get away because of buggy unbalanced code.

Combined with sneak and hide, which is horribly buggy and the problems with the stealing code listed in other posts here, there is almost zero way to stop it.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."
-Mel Brooks

mallor
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Re: Okay, time to fix this -.-

Post by mallor » 03 Jul 2017 12:21

Mersereau wrote: There are areas where pvp is not allowed.
The are now. I'm not sure if it's only Sparkle church and or any safe room.

mallor
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Re: Okay, time to fix this -.-

Post by mallor » 03 Jul 2017 12:23

As for harassment, stealing is not, and PvP is not. Repeated stealing and repeated PvP is.
Hence spamming stealing must be stopped. Also I would add additional checks to stealing itself.
You know the usual ones all stealth game have. Boots, light, DEX, etc.

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nils
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Re: Okay, time to fix this -.-

Post by nils » 03 Jul 2017 16:10

A couple thoughts on stealing

I remember a time when the Thieves of Hiddukel were a secretive bunch, professional thieves who dedicated their hard earned money (the old fashioned way) to sacrifice to Hiddukel, who in turn provided a very unique and special gift – to steal anything once, or maybe even twice.

Yes, stealing worn and wielded items was possible. So the story goes; you sacrificed a boatload of money, and in return you could go to the Rider and steal his flaming black broadsword right out of his hands. Wanted the Balrog’s whip? Yeah, you could do that too. Once, maybe twice.

Practically speaking you bought the item at a ridiculous price. This was also the trade-off for not being granted any real combat-aid. Now any logical person would say “HAHA, STEALING A FULL PLATEMAIL OFF SOMEONE’S BACK – THAT’S ABSURD” while at the same time has no problem with the concept of spells or magic in general. Stealing as a Thief of Hiddukel wasn’t logical, it was their “Magic”.

The kind of "theft" we see today? That’s more of a Shadow Walker-style robbery shit show that squirts menstrual blood all over the once great thief guild, and it angers me. It also angers me that stealing worn or wielded items is impossible. It should be possible – once, maybe twice, at a ridiculous price.

That said, this kind of abuse has got to go. Proper Thieves of Hiddukel only needed one attempt. Have the cool down set to a whole hour. And yeah, if you’re a shitty scumbag abuser of a once great guild, getting caught stealing should result in your invisibility spell broken, hell even a chance of a “hold hand”-roll, so that the little shit can get his head smashed in.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

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Arman
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Re: Okay, time to fix this -.-

Post by Arman » 03 Jul 2017 18:51

nils wrote:A couple thoughts on stealing

I remember a time when the Thieves of Hiddukel were a secretive bunch, professional thieves who dedicated their hard earned money (the old fashioned way) to sacrifice to Hiddukel, who in turn provided a very unique and special gift – to steal anything once, or maybe even twice.

Yes, stealing worn and wielded items was possible. So the story goes; you sacrificed a boatload of money, and in return you could go to the Rider and steal his flaming black broadsword right out of his hands. Wanted the Balrog’s whip? Yeah, you could do that too. Once, maybe twice.

Practically speaking you bought the item at a ridiculous price. This was also the trade-off for not being granted any real combat-aid. Now any logical person would say “HAHA, STEALING A FULL PLATEMAIL OFF SOMEONE’S BACK – THAT’S ABSURD” while at the same time has no problem with the concept of spells or magic in general. Stealing as a Thief of Hiddukel wasn’t logical, it was their “Magic”.

The kind of "theft" we see today? That’s more of a Shadow Walker-style robbery shit show that squirts menstrual blood all over the once great thief guild, and it angers me. It also angers me that stealing worn or wielded items is impossible. It should be possible – once, maybe twice, at a ridiculous price.

That said, this kind of abuse has got to go. Proper Thieves of Hiddukel only needed one attempt. Have the cool down set to a whole hour. And yeah, if you’re a shitty scumbag abuser of a once great guild, getting caught stealing should result in your invisibility spell broken, hell even a chance of a “hold hand”-roll, so that the little shit can get his head smashed in.
You don't need to be a member of a thieves guild to steal. Just have pick pocket skills, which you can get from AGs, and be hidden/invisible. Which kind of strengthens the case for a change to the way invisibility works globally.

Also Mallor is spot on... thievery can be a form of harassment as pvp can be. Worth noting that players have been warned with deletion in the past for spamming steal commands, going back almost two decades. It isn't something the admin ignores.

Draugor
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Re: Okay, time to fix this -.-

Post by Draugor » 03 Jul 2017 19:14

Just add more invis disabling items and make people go out of invis if caught and its fine, either that or make it cost absurd amounts of mana

mallor
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Re: Okay, time to fix this -.-

Post by mallor » 03 Jul 2017 19:32

nils wrote:hell even a chance of a “hold hand”-roll, so that the little shit can get his head smashed in.
I like this thought! It's only logical. If I feel someone trying to steal something from me I won't stand still looking around, I'll grab the asshole's hand and beat him senseless.

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Alisa
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Re: Okay, time to fix this -.-

Post by Alisa » 03 Jul 2017 23:36

Arman wrote: Also Mallor is spot on... thievery can be a form of harassment as pvp can be. Worth noting that players have been warned with deletion in the past for spamming steal commands, going back almost two decades. It isn't something the admin ignores.
Are we supposed to report theft spamming to the AoP, when we can't see who is doing it?

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Cherek
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Re: Okay, time to fix this -.-

Post by Cherek » 04 Jul 2017 00:29

Alisa wrote:
Arman wrote: Also Mallor is spot on... thievery can be a form of harassment as pvp can be. Worth noting that players have been warned with deletion in the past for spamming steal commands, going back almost two decades. It isn't something the admin ignores.
Are we supposed to report theft spamming to the AoP, when we can't see who is doing it?
Now, I am not in the Admin or AoP anymore but if it's decided this is an issue, it really sounds like a better solution to add some sort of increased delay so you can't spam it, instead of trying to police players who just use the normal game commands? It's like letting people have a <kill> command with a rule saying you are only allowed to use it once every 30 seconds or you risk punishment. That would be really weird, so it sounds odd that we ever had a rule against spamming <steal>? But lots of things were weird in Genesis 20 years ago though, so it's definitely possible. But if I remember right the rules was against spamming in general because of the server / bandwidth limitations of the time, not spamming thief commands specifically? Spamming in general could actually slow down or even freeze Genesis, which is how I remember the no-spam rule. It could remember wrong of course, but I definitely remember we learned it wasn't okay to spam commands back when I started playing.

Mirandus
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Re: Okay, time to fix this -.-

Post by Mirandus » 04 Jul 2017 02:07

Hey Folks,

This is something that we are aware of and no I do not like it. We are looking at a way to deal with the situation that doesn't involve having to have things reported and then investigate.

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