View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently 19 Jul 2018 06:04

Forum rules


- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.



Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Bringing back old guilds and the forums rules 
Author Message
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
Posts: 2618
I split this topics from another thread since the discussion derailed:

About bringing back guilds,

While I was AoD there were several requests to bring back various dead guilds (pun intended), and before I joined the admin I generally felt "YES" about every idea that spoke about bringing back old legendary guilds like the AA (back when they were closed), WoHS, Khiraa, Vampires, Mystics, etc. However, after joining the admin and being faced with these questions for real, I had to seriously consider the pros and cons of trying to bring back old guilds, and I came to the following conclusions:

1. First of all, while it may seem easier to build on something that already exists, it's often actually much easier to just build your own thing from scratch than try to understand old code someone else wrote decades ago, with little or no documentation. So from a technical point of view, you're probably more likely to fail trying to resurrect a guild than to create a new one. Unless you're the original creator of course, but those are generally not around anymore.

2. Expectations. Players have so amazingly HIGH expectations of these old legendary guilds. Unless you're a very experienced wizard (Arman for example) you're in for a very daunting task of trying to live up to the hype, and there's a big risk people will be disappointed despite your best intentions.

3. Balance. Do we really NEED guild X? Even if it was the coolest guild ever, if it leads to a very imbalanced guild setup, it might not be worth it. For example there was a request to try to bring back Khiraa at a time not long ago when Arman had not returned (No SoHM or WoHS planned), the EC was put on ice, and the Cult of Chemosh was the only other guild in the works. Bringing back Khiraa could have meant we would soon be looking at no less than four evil caster guilds (Cult of Chemosh included), against just one goodie (in need of a recode). That just did not seem like a good idea at the time, regardless of how cool Khiraa was. And they were pretty cool!

4. Old fond memories. It's like doing a remake of an old movie from a time when you grew up. It just isn't the same. AA is a great example of a guild that mainly became legendary because of its members, and the time period, and the events that took place back then. And when it finally was resurrected, the times had changed, Genesis had changed, and so had its players. I am not saying the current AA is a failure, or that it was a bad idea to bring it back, but it's no secret the new AA has had trouble living up the glory of the past (Sorry Avatar). It would be really fun to turn back time to Genesis 1997, but we can't. And bringing back other old guilds will most likely not turn back the time either. I think often a completely new guild has a higher long term chance of success, than the reopening of an old guild that will enjoy a huge nostalgia spike when opening, but it's not a guarantee it will last.

So, I kind of changed opinion along the way. The player in me still wants to see all those cool old guilds back, but the logical and practical side of me feels that unless it's exactly the right wizard, and the game really needs that type of guild in question, then it's probably best to let them remain buried, and think of new cool things, instead of trying to bring back old fond memories to life again. That rarely works. Not in life, and not here as history has shown.

We'll see how it goes with the WoHS! Feeling the pressure Arman?:) Nah, just kidding, I was the AoD who approved it after all, because in that case I do think the SoHM and WoHS was/is exactly something that Genesis really needed/needs, and Arman being exactly the right person to make it happen.

Anyway, just my personal thoughts, it's entirely possible I am wrong of course, and a reopening of the Khiraa could be the best thing since sliced bread, or that "fourth time's a charm" could be true for the Vampires.


01 Aug 2017 06:19
Profile
Great Adventurer
User avatar

Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13
Posts: 185
Cherek, that is the biggest pile of horseshit I've read in a long while. Is this one of those "If you tell a lie often enough it becomes truth"-moments?


01 Aug 2017 16:57
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
Posts: 2618
nils wrote:
Cherek, that is the biggest pile of horseshit I've read in a long while. Is this one of those "If you tell a lie often enough it becomes truth"-moments?


Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.

I am happy to discuss things, as long as we can stick to a nice tone. What exactly is it about my post you disagree so much about? All I offered was my opinion on the matter, it's perfectly fine to feel differently about things.


01 Aug 2017 18:59
Profile
Great Adventurer
User avatar

Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13
Posts: 185
Cherek wrote:
nils wrote:
Cherek, that is the biggest pile of horseshit I've read in a long while. Is this one of those "If you tell a lie often enough it becomes truth"-moments?


Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.

I am happy to discuss things, as long as we can stick to a nice tone. What exactly is it about my post you disagree so much about? All I offered was my opinion on the matter, it's perfectly fine to feel differently about things.


You're quoting forum rules for saying horsehit and calling you out on lies? I'd go as far as saying you are the one with extraordinary claims, and hence should be the one fact checking your "opinions".

You got the Khiraa-story wrong. You got the Angmar-story wrong. You got the Vampire-story wrong.
Now go fact check.


01 Aug 2017 19:55
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
Posts: 2618
Yeah i don't really sense the "respectfulness" in your tone Nils, so I felt it best to remind you about the rules.

So far you haven't said anything else than "You're wrong" without offering any type of explanation about what, according to you, is correct.

For the vampires, I haven't really said anything, so I am not sure what I can possibly be wrong about? All I said was that vampires have a troubled history, and that many players have strong opinions for and against the vampires existence. You can't say that is incorrect? And that's all I really said about the vampires?

How I can get a Khiraa-story wrong, and how you can know more than me, when everything I say is based on a private conversation between me and another wizard I have no idea. What I said is exactly what happened. A wizard asked if he or she could potentially attempt a Khiraa recode, we discussed it, and both agreed it probably was not what the game needed at that time because it would risk causing an already imbalanced guild setup to become even more imbalanced. It's entirely possible you are referring to some other event when a Khiraa-reopening has been suggested? If so, I don't know anything about that. I am sure it has been suggested several times during the last 20 years. It sure sounds like we are talking about different things here.

About AA, I stand for what I said. But that is MY opinion, on how I felt AA was before, compared to now. I am sure there are many other aspects as well. And I am not blaming players nor wizards, I just think the times changed, and that's the main reason the new AA isnt the same as the old AA. But there are of course other reasons too, and I do not doubt some are technical, or balance related, if that is what you are thinking about?

Anyway, like I said, all I am offering is my personal opinions. If you think I am wrong, feel free to _respectfully_ argue your side, if you have a different opinion. I am always happy to discuss things.


01 Aug 2017 21:20
Profile
Myth

Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Posts: 1332
Location: Kristiansund, Norway
Respect is earned and not freely given.
Also the rules themselves on the area are utter bullshit and a reason why I left this forum and the facebook group in the first place.

Wizards trying to demand respect while giving nothing in return..
Bugs me..

_________________
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.


02 Aug 2017 04:47
Profile
Hero
User avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2015 03:28
Posts: 380
Location: Vingaard Keep
Giving none in return? What? Cherek's always been respectful to everyone as far as I've seen.

_________________
They denied that wealth could be printed, they denied that lunches were free;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.


02 Aug 2017 05:22
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36
Posts: 2618
Amberlee wrote:
Respect is earned and not freely given.
Also the rules themselves on the area are utter bullshit and a reason why I left this forum and the facebook group in the first place.

Wizards trying to demand respect while giving nothing in return..
Bugs me..


Hmm? We're not demanding you to respect US wizards specifically. All the rule says is to BE respectful towards ALL other users of the forums. All we demand of you is to keep a civilized and friendly tone when discussing things. That's really not a lot to ask I think. And we kept the flame forums for everyone who wants to scream and fight too.

This of course also applies to wizards. Actually, we wizards have much harsher rules to follow when posting here, and in game, and on FB. And respecting others, both other wizards and players, is VERY HIGH on that list of rules. It's sad you feel that wizards aren't respectful towards players. I sure try to be, and from what I can see, the majority of all wizards who post here, or on FB, generally try to stay respectful and nice too. And any wizards who are NOT treating players or other wizards nicely are swiftly warned, which usually works. If not, they have their posting rights revoked. Or worse. These rules existed when I became AoD, and I enforced them while I was AoD (luckily I didn't need to more than a few times), and I have no doubt Gorboth will enforce them too now when he is AoD again.

So it's the other way around really, wizards have plenty of rules to follow when it comes to dealing with players (both on forums and in game), while players just have two rules simple to follow on the forums.


02 Aug 2017 05:30
Profile
Myth
User avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2010 20:33
Posts: 1331
Location: UK
Glad AA came back.
Its the guild I always wanted to play.
And there have been several times when it has had the spirit of old.
(everyone running around causing chaos)

It also the only fighter guild in the realm I am most interested in thematically.

That it does or doesn't retain remaining popularity with a wide audience is pretty much down to balance.
Players are pretty savy and realise what gives them the most bang per buck.

If AA suddenly became the best grinding guild you would see a lot of migrations.


I really don't know where the idea of guild x deserves to be apex, and we balance it by charging them more tax comes from.
It is as old as genesis I guess?
But considering all the components when you just look at the tax for a special attack the difference of a few % points of tax doesn't nearly compensate for a special that would be twice as damaging when buffed with haste and epic gear.
But that is how things are.

So given that is the case I would say re-open as many guilds as you like.
Just not at the apex (where some of them were, which caused the problems).
Then people can play the guilds they enjoy thematically.

_________________
http://genesisquests.pbworks.com/
Join up and help each other with Quests :)


02 Aug 2017 11:47
Profile
Hero

Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25
Posts: 402
Lolololo.

Cherek was actually the best 'non-coding' wizard Genesis had (at least during my time, so since 2000 or something like that) and even if he did spoke some bs on a few occasions i can't understand how a 'personal opinion' on the guild status + personal impression on mortal vs wizard PoV can be called bs so easily :D


02 Aug 2017 12:20
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software.