Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ...

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Should stat-mods (race-based, or otherwise) stay or go?

Keep them - as they are is fine
19
28%
Keep them - but change them!
35
51%
Remove them - no mods plz!
14
21%
 
Total votes: 68

Manglor
Rising Hero
Posts: 322
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Location: Dieppe, NB, Canada

Re: Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ...

Post by Manglor » 30 Sep 2017 14:18

I'd like to see them kept, but changed as well. Goblins should be the supreme fighters, but their drawbacks aren't enough to justify it. Once you reach a certain discipline level, it's all easy mode for goblins. Goblins seem to have stat modifiers not overly different from Ogres (obviously to a lesser extent), but the combat in Genesis doesn't punish the moronic in combat. I never fully understood why a goblin/ogre who is unbelievably stupid, so much so that they wouldn't recognize an opening in their opponents defence if their lives literally depended on it, has no penalties whatsoever in combat.

I don't think we should have such extremes, but I also think that it's the combat system that is inherently flawed and not necessarily the stat modifiers. All six stats should play some sort of role in combat. Low int/wis = lower hit values, whereas higher str = higher dmg values. I'm not trying to say that a human evenly set should be top in game, far from it...but combat should be more realistic.

mallor
Rising Hero
Posts: 371
Joined: 27 Jun 2011 13:20

Re: Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ...

Post by mallor » 30 Sep 2017 18:11

Manglor wrote:I'd like to see them kept, but changed as well. Goblins should be the supreme fighters, but their drawbacks aren't enough to justify it. Once you reach a certain discipline level, it's all easy mode for goblins. Goblins seem to have stat modifiers not overly different from Ogres (obviously to a lesser extent), but the combat in Genesis doesn't punish the moronic in combat. I never fully understood why a goblin/ogre who is unbelievably stupid, so much so that they wouldn't recognize an opening in their opponents defence if their lives literally depended on it, has no penalties whatsoever in combat.

I don't think we should have such extremes, but I also think that it's the combat system that is inherently flawed and not necessarily the stat modifiers. All six stats should play some sort of role in combat. Low int/wis = lower hit values, whereas higher str = higher dmg values. I'm not trying to say that a human evenly set should be top in game, far from it...but combat should be more realistic.
All that makes sense, but I suppose we shouldn't look at race in context of only races, but rather in context of guilds and sides. Now sure, gobos have better combats, but gobos are mostly on evil side, and good guilds already have much more utility than evil side(tank rotation, rescue, etc). If you're going to address the issue looking at JUST races, you're going to ruin the balance, which already is quite questionable.

Also, don't forget most, if not all combat specials already have at least one mental stat involved. Charge - DIS, smash - WIS, etc. Dwarf gladiator performs so much better than gobo of the same size, it's not even funny.

Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1785
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ...

Post by Draugor » 30 Sep 2017 19:27

mallor wrote:
Also, don't forget most, if not all combat specials already have at least one mental stat involved. Charge - DIS, smash - WIS, etc. Dwarf gladiator performs so much better than gobo of the same size, it's not even funny.

Yea, think charge diverges ALOT from the norm with 2 mentalstats? Makes no sense... but still

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gorboth
Site Admin
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Re: Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ...

Post by gorboth » 02 Oct 2017 20:00

Manglor wrote:I never fully understood why a goblin/ogre who is unbelievably stupid, so much so that they wouldn't recognize an opening in their opponents defence if their lives literally depended on it, has no penalties whatsoever in combat.
I think if you talk to members of the Ogre guild, you will find pretty solid agreement that they are heavily penalized for their stupidity. They, for example, have one of the slowest, least accurate damage specials in the game. It is powerful when it hits, but it hits slowly and not very reliably. They cannot wear shields because they do not understand how to use them or why anyone would want to. Moreover, they are prevented from using every armour in the game that isn't sold by their guild (specifically built for an ogre) and all one-handed weapons. So ... I'd call those a few drawbacks in combat. ;-)

G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 561
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ...

Post by Kvator » 02 Oct 2017 21:01

gorboth wrote:
Manglor wrote:I never fully understood why a goblin/ogre who is unbelievably stupid, so much so that they wouldn't recognize an opening in their opponents defence if their lives literally depended on it, has no penalties whatsoever in combat.
I think if you talk to members of the Ogre guild, you will find pretty solid agreement that they are heavily penalized for their stupidity. They, for example, have one of the slowest, least accurate damage specials in the game. It is powerful when it hits, but it hits slowly and not very reliably. They cannot wear shields because they do not understand how to use them or why anyone would want to. Moreover, they are prevented from using every armour in the game that isn't sold by their guild (specifically built for an ogre) and all one-handed weapons. So ... I'd call those a few drawbacks in combat. ;-)

G.
Yup, ball all that is done via guild-balance not race-balance :P

Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1785
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ...

Post by Draugor » 02 Oct 2017 21:18

gorboth wrote:
Manglor wrote:I never fully understood why a goblin/ogre who is unbelievably stupid, so much so that they wouldn't recognize an opening in their opponents defence if their lives literally depended on it, has no penalties whatsoever in combat.
I think if you talk to members of the Ogre guild, you will find pretty solid agreement that they are heavily penalized for their stupidity. They, for example, have one of the slowest, least accurate damage specials in the game. It is powerful when it hits, but it hits slowly and not very reliably. They cannot wear shields because they do not understand how to use them or why anyone would want to. Moreover, they are prevented from using every armour in the game that isn't sold by their guild (specifically built for an ogre) and all one-handed weapons. So ... I'd call those a few drawbacks in combat. ;-)

G.
Its not powerfull -.- Or it is up untill abit in on myth, but it seems to be hardcapped stupidly early.

Rincon
Great Adventurer
Posts: 180
Joined: 04 Jun 2010 23:37

Re: Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ...

Post by Rincon » 03 Oct 2017 12:06

I think it's worth having a look at this old thread:

https://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewt ... e+go+again

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nils
Expert
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Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13

Re: Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ...

Post by nils » 03 Oct 2017 13:37

Ok, just a brain fart - let's say everyone agrees racial mods are tossed to the bin and all races are statwise equal.

Could we then, in return, get more mastery over how experience is distributed over the individual stats? Even more "extreme" than even the previous system (the numbers), to make up for it?
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

Drazson
Expert
Posts: 281
Joined: 24 Jan 2016 21:27

Re: Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ...

Post by Drazson » 03 Oct 2017 14:15

nils wrote:Ok, just a brain fart - let's say everyone agrees racial mods are tossed to the bin and all races are statwise equal.

Could we then, in return, get more mastery over how experience is distributed over the individual stats? Even more "extreme" than even the previous system (the numbers), to make up for it?
Holy cow yes! Then make each race have a small interesting perk. All dwarves could get the race guild passive about drinking a little more, elves get fatigued by running around somewhat slower than others, humans are impressively boring and maybe bargain a little better etc. Something stereotypical can be found from many fantasy settings so that at least there is some like quirk to each race despite removing the stat orientation.

Etanukar
Adept
Posts: 105
Joined: 27 Nov 2013 01:34

Re: Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ...

Post by Etanukar » 03 Oct 2017 18:31

As one who delved into other muds long ago before landing on Gen, part of the fun and draw of this game for me is the diversity of the races. Whats the flipside of all of this complaining? A standard playing field where the only thing different is the description. Some of you think that is utopian, but if you havent experienced what you request first hand, how can you have a concept of it?
Examples:
All races have the same attributes and stats - no differences at all.
All of the characters have the same cap on size, HP and mana... for sake of argument, lets call this the current level of genesis hero
All class specialties (guilds) have 1 special that does the exact same amount of damage and takes the exact same amount of time to use as every other class or guild... the only thing different is how it looks
Does it sound boring yet?
No? Ok, no equipment in the game is any better than forged smith items, except for 5 unique items in the game.
Oh wait... this mud had color as part of the mudlib... so your combat could be color coded for different hits
Ok, my character is maxed, now what? Well no reason to grind... I can either A) kill other players B) try to find bugs/exploits C) socialize or D) find a new game. I chose the latter.
I know I am not the only one who has experienced this in the past...
I just say be careful of what you wish for.

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