Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ...

[Dhez]

2/3 out of the people that posted here seem to want some sort of change to it, either 100% equal or the majority going for lowering the insane differences, the inability the admin has to give a fuck about the players is astounding, kinda feels arrogant.

You're absolutely right, we don't care. Cotillion didn't care when he recently fixed the age old guild stat problem. Petros didn't care when he coded and ran a brand new event. Mirandus, as you know, doesn't care the slightest when he tirelessly sorts out problems players have. Arman didn't care about anything but himself when working on the countless of things he's created/fixed lately. Shall I go on?:)

You're honestly saying we don't give a f**k about players and are _arrogant_?? Really?

I think I won't bother spending my free time to run that Christmas lottery for you players this year. I do look forward to the wizday though! I have a specific target in mind.

With all due respect, I believe this isn't the point. The frustration arises from the following situation: when something is seen as a problem by a vast majority of players, openly discussed, voted for, and considered settled, the change isn't done and the matter is seemingly forgotten. Nevertheless, when there is an issue which no player has complained about, or maybe one or two privately such as many believe the case to be with the changes to the church, it gets implemented quite fast. All of this coupled with statements such as "Anyone who cares to cry, I'll be sure to put a bucket at your feet." can very well be misunderstood by the receiving party, wouldn't you agree?

[Arman]

I get where you are coming from Dhez. To be honest the change that we were considering implementing was going to have pretty big impacts... and I don't think we have unpacked them all, so is likely to have a few unexpected ones.

And I agree, we are mostly all willing to embrace change.. however wanting change is one thing... the experience is another. Makes me think of this scenario that I see all the time at work:

https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/create ... 0change%3F

I honestly think we'd want to test it before rolling it out permanently. Or at least allow players to get a taste for what the proposed changes are before they roll out.

[Dhez]

I get where you are coming from Dhez. To be honest the change that we were considering implementing was going to have pretty big impacts... and I don't think we have unpacked them all, so is likely to have a few unexpected ones.

And I agree, we are mostly all willing to embrace change.. however wanting change is one thing... the experience is another. Makes me think of this scenario that I see all the time at work:

https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/create ... 0change%3F

I honestly think we'd want to test it before rolling it out permanently. Or at least allow players to get a taste for what the proposed changes are before they roll out.

On that we concur, of course. There are two topics at hand here: that of change, and that of the software development cycle. It is true that there should be a stabilisation period between feature development in which things are tested. The population's issue is why is this the case for the changes they want and not for the changes the vast majority really doesn't care about? The same goes for the topic of change. Of course we are creatures of habit and even though we might say we wish for a change, we may not be certain of the consequences of these changes. Though apparently in the right, it does lead once again to the previous question of "Why is this something to consider only when pertaining to the changes the population asks for and not the ones the administration implements without forewarning?"

Please do keep in mind my explanations aren't an attack or even direct criticism at any particular individual, but attempt rather to shed some light on the matter and present the players' stance in a concise manner, making it thus less prone to it remaining unaddressed due to misunderstandings.

[Zugzug]

The population's issue is why is this the case for the changes they want and not for the changes the vast majority really doesn't care about?

I think you are confusing the vociferous few on the forum with actual population of players. Sometimes it is pointless to argue with someone who doesn't listen to the arguments you make, so we don't.

The main underlying reason for people pushing racial statchange is to make humans comparatively stronger than they are now (vs. other races) - and people pushing for this tend to ignore that versatility of humans has to have a "price" attached to it, so to speak.

Mallor wrote this in the previous pages of this topic - racial balance has to be looked at along with guild balance, guild combination balance, align balance, accsess to qxp, etc -- and it's not as simple as saying we change 190 here to 140 and 60 to 80 (or whatever).

[Cherek]

I get that it is frustrating, I've been the frustrated player shouting on the forum for various changes too, and I also learned what a pointless activity that is.

I was just trying to point out that there are a lot of things being done lately. Cotillion's guild brute fix is also something that has been complained about a long time too. Arman's duel shield spellcaster fix the same. Petros created a new event, when was the last time that happened? And lots of other things that has changed and / or been improved. It's easy to forget that just a couple of years ago there were basically just a handful active wizards (at best) and any of the things that has happened lately was pretty unthinkable. The last year is really the first time in a long while when it's been realistically possible to have big things fixed and implemented, as we now have a full active admin, and many active wizards. So yeah, there are plenty of known problems that have been left unfixed simply due to the fact the Genesis was a very empty place for a long time. Thankfully times have changed.

Sure, it's frustrating when the thing YOU think is the most important has not been fixed, but I still think it would be a lot nicer to think one more time on how to provide that feedback. I think it's quite unfair against the people who spend a lot of their free time to say that they are arrogant and don't give a f**k. Thankfully I am quite sure that this is the opinion of very few players, still, it is of course frustrating to hear, and it does absolutely nothing to help.

When frustrated Draugor, I suggest writing what you REALLY want to write, then deleting it, and posting a more respectful post next time, and the chances of a serious reply probably improves greatly. That's what I did as a reply to you, still I did not manage to be completely respectful, and ended up being sarcastic, but it was a lot better than what I initially _wanted_ to write.

[Darken Rahl]

My suggestion is this

The insanity of the stats of goblins is out of balance, just check the rankings.
The dwarves are the same, but they have a drawback to counter it.
I also know all doesn't have the web publication ON.

So what to do then?
For Goblins
We need to balance them out a bit, take off a few points from their bonus combat stats, like 2-3 each.
Add some point of those to their INT and DIS. 1 in each perhaps ?

For Dwarves
The same will go for dwarves, they can get an extra point in dex, or two. And loose some of their str and con as the goblins did.

To "balance" the human race, you will be given 4-5 points during creation process to distribute over your stats and you cannot put more than 2 in one stat.

I am thinking more of this .. how to "solve" it .

[Draugor]

When frustrated Draugor, I suggest writing what you REALLY want to write, then deleting it, and posting a more respectful post next time, and the chances of a serious reply probably improves greatly. That's what I did as a reply to you, still I did not manage to be completely respectful, and ended up being sarcastic, but it was a lot better than what I initially _wanted_ to write.

Feck it, I'll just remove my post, not like you wizards will listen or give an actual responce, respectfull or not unless its 100% in line with the "inner party" of the wizzie world right?

[Hektor]

I'd also like to voice that while I could see the advantage of minor adjustments, then, if we talk a major rebalance then, in my opinion - the global impacts and errors and changes and fixes and new rebalances elsewhere and new whinefests so on ad nauseaum - is a much greater disadvantage than the perceived and assumed advantages of a major revisiting.

Add then that this is not the biggest single problem over the past 15 years for all of the community in my opinion. I second the notion that just because a group of 10-20 are being extremely vocal on a forum over a given period of time that I doubt it constitutes as a vast majority of the Genesis community. I could be wrong of course.

I personally think Genesis has many far more important things to look at than handling the downfall of a massive rebalance of stats for the races. If anything, minor adjustments and more impact on lacking all stats and greater advantage for other stats.

[Draugor]

I'd also like to voice that while I could see the advantage of minor adjustments, then, if we talk a major rebalance then, in my opinion - the global impacts and errors and changes and fixes and new rebalances elsewhere and new whinefests so on ad nauseaum - is a much greater disadvantage than the perceived and assumed advantages of a major revisiting.

Add then that this is not the biggest single problem over the past 15 years for all of the community in my opinion. I second the notion that just because a group of 10-20 are being extremely vocal on a forum over a given period of time that I doubt it constitutes as a vast majority of the Genesis community. I could be wrong of course.

I personally think Genesis has many far more important things to look at than handling the downfall of a massive rebalance of stats for the races. If anything, minor adjustments and more impact on lacking all stats and greater advantage for other stats.

The majority is calling for slight tweaks to the stats just to take the insane differences down and make more races viable for more types of classes, a few are calling for a 100% baseline and creation of special abilities (wich would be a major undertaking I'd think)

[Cherek]

With all due respect, I believe this isn't the point. The frustration arises from the following situation: when something is seen as a problem by a vast majority of players, openly discussed, voted for, and considered settled, the change isn't done and the matter is seemingly forgotten. Nevertheless, when there is an issue which no player has complained about, or maybe one or two privately such as many believe the case to be with the changes to the church, it gets implemented quite fast. All of this coupled with statements such as "Anyone who cares to cry, I'll be sure to put a bucket at your feet." can very well be misunderstood by the receiving party, wouldn't you agree?

I do get the frustration, although I think most of you also realize that the church change is much quicker to both decide on and implement, than changing something as big as racial balance.

As a former AoP I made a lot of small changes and fixes that perhaps for many are relatively "unimportant", compared to things like racial balance, size differences, or other big issues we always discussed. So sure, it may seem like we're focusing on small unimportant changes instead of the big issues, but that reason for that is very simple. I log in, have a few hours to spend, hear about an issue and decide "Hmm, that's true, that quest really should have better syntax", and go ahead and fix it. Not because it's more important, but because it is something I can do with the amount of time and have, and also because it's something I can decide and act on myself, without the need for admin-consensus, testing, etc, etc.

It's much easier to start and finish a 1-hour project, than a big project involving lots of other people. And let's not forget that a lot also depends on the wizard, and their personal feelings / knowledge. What is fun to work on? What do I have access to work on? How much time do I have? What things do I think are important to fix? What can I fix based on my knowledge and coding skills?

I think some mortals must try to understand that just because ideas are discussed on forums, it does not mean it WILL be changed, and if things are not changed instantly, or not at all, there countless of reasons why, and none of them are "wizards are arrogant and don't care about players".