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Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ... 

Should stat-mods (race-based, or otherwise) stay or go?
Keep them - as they are is fine 28%  28%  [ 19 ]
Keep them - but change them! 51%  51%  [ 34 ]
Remove them - no mods plz! 21%  21%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 67

Stat Modifiers - racial or otherwise ... 
Author Message
Expert

Joined: 16 Sep 2013 17:30
Posts: 290
Location: Dieppe, NB, Canada
I'd like to see them kept, but changed as well. Goblins should be the supreme fighters, but their drawbacks aren't enough to justify it. Once you reach a certain discipline level, it's all easy mode for goblins. Goblins seem to have stat modifiers not overly different from Ogres (obviously to a lesser extent), but the combat in Genesis doesn't punish the moronic in combat. I never fully understood why a goblin/ogre who is unbelievably stupid, so much so that they wouldn't recognize an opening in their opponents defence if their lives literally depended on it, has no penalties whatsoever in combat.

I don't think we should have such extremes, but I also think that it's the combat system that is inherently flawed and not necessarily the stat modifiers. All six stats should play some sort of role in combat. Low int/wis = lower hit values, whereas higher str = higher dmg values. I'm not trying to say that a human evenly set should be top in game, far from it...but combat should be more realistic.


30 Sep 2017 14:18
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Rising Hero

Joined: 27 Jun 2011 13:20
Posts: 346
Manglor wrote:
I'd like to see them kept, but changed as well. Goblins should be the supreme fighters, but their drawbacks aren't enough to justify it. Once you reach a certain discipline level, it's all easy mode for goblins. Goblins seem to have stat modifiers not overly different from Ogres (obviously to a lesser extent), but the combat in Genesis doesn't punish the moronic in combat. I never fully understood why a goblin/ogre who is unbelievably stupid, so much so that they wouldn't recognize an opening in their opponents defence if their lives literally depended on it, has no penalties whatsoever in combat.

I don't think we should have such extremes, but I also think that it's the combat system that is inherently flawed and not necessarily the stat modifiers. All six stats should play some sort of role in combat. Low int/wis = lower hit values, whereas higher str = higher dmg values. I'm not trying to say that a human evenly set should be top in game, far from it...but combat should be more realistic.


All that makes sense, but I suppose we shouldn't look at race in context of only races, but rather in context of guilds and sides. Now sure, gobos have better combats, but gobos are mostly on evil side, and good guilds already have much more utility than evil side(tank rotation, rescue, etc). If you're going to address the issue looking at JUST races, you're going to ruin the balance, which already is quite questionable.

Also, don't forget most, if not all combat specials already have at least one mental stat involved. Charge - DIS, smash - WIS, etc. Dwarf gladiator performs so much better than gobo of the same size, it's not even funny.


30 Sep 2017 18:11
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Myth

Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14
Posts: 1394
mallor wrote:

Also, don't forget most, if not all combat specials already have at least one mental stat involved. Charge - DIS, smash - WIS, etc. Dwarf gladiator performs so much better than gobo of the same size, it's not even funny.



Yea, think charge diverges ALOT from the norm with 2 mentalstats? Makes no sense... but still


30 Sep 2017 19:27
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Site Admin
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010 20:51
Posts: 2062
Location: Some old coffin
Manglor wrote:
I never fully understood why a goblin/ogre who is unbelievably stupid, so much so that they wouldn't recognize an opening in their opponents defence if their lives literally depended on it, has no penalties whatsoever in combat.


I think if you talk to members of the Ogre guild, you will find pretty solid agreement that they are heavily penalized for their stupidity. They, for example, have one of the slowest, least accurate damage specials in the game. It is powerful when it hits, but it hits slowly and not very reliably. They cannot wear shields because they do not understand how to use them or why anyone would want to. Moreover, they are prevented from using every armour in the game that isn't sold by their guild (specifically built for an ogre) and all one-handed weapons. So ... I'd call those a few drawbacks in combat. ;-)

G.

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02 Oct 2017 20:00
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Rising Hero

Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25
Posts: 359
gorboth wrote:
Manglor wrote:
I never fully understood why a goblin/ogre who is unbelievably stupid, so much so that they wouldn't recognize an opening in their opponents defence if their lives literally depended on it, has no penalties whatsoever in combat.


I think if you talk to members of the Ogre guild, you will find pretty solid agreement that they are heavily penalized for their stupidity. They, for example, have one of the slowest, least accurate damage specials in the game. It is powerful when it hits, but it hits slowly and not very reliably. They cannot wear shields because they do not understand how to use them or why anyone would want to. Moreover, they are prevented from using every armour in the game that isn't sold by their guild (specifically built for an ogre) and all one-handed weapons. So ... I'd call those a few drawbacks in combat. ;-)

G.


Yup, ball all that is done via guild-balance not race-balance :P


02 Oct 2017 21:01
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Myth

Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14
Posts: 1394
gorboth wrote:
Manglor wrote:
I never fully understood why a goblin/ogre who is unbelievably stupid, so much so that they wouldn't recognize an opening in their opponents defence if their lives literally depended on it, has no penalties whatsoever in combat.


I think if you talk to members of the Ogre guild, you will find pretty solid agreement that they are heavily penalized for their stupidity. They, for example, have one of the slowest, least accurate damage specials in the game. It is powerful when it hits, but it hits slowly and not very reliably. They cannot wear shields because they do not understand how to use them or why anyone would want to. Moreover, they are prevented from using every armour in the game that isn't sold by their guild (specifically built for an ogre) and all one-handed weapons. So ... I'd call those a few drawbacks in combat. ;-)

G.


Its not powerfull -.- Or it is up untill abit in on myth, but it seems to be hardcapped stupidly early.


02 Oct 2017 21:18
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Adept

Joined: 04 Jun 2010 23:37
Posts: 121
I think it's worth having a look at this old thread:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2091&hilit=%27ere+we+go+again


03 Oct 2017 12:06
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Great Adventurer
User avatar

Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13
Posts: 185
Ok, just a brain fart - let's say everyone agrees racial mods are tossed to the bin and all races are statwise equal.

Could we then, in return, get more mastery over how experience is distributed over the individual stats? Even more "extreme" than even the previous system (the numbers), to make up for it?


03 Oct 2017 13:37
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Great Adventurer

Joined: 24 Jan 2016 21:27
Posts: 152
nils wrote:
Ok, just a brain fart - let's say everyone agrees racial mods are tossed to the bin and all races are statwise equal.

Could we then, in return, get more mastery over how experience is distributed over the individual stats? Even more "extreme" than even the previous system (the numbers), to make up for it?


Holy cow yes! Then make each race have a small interesting perk. All dwarves could get the race guild passive about drinking a little more, elves get fatigued by running around somewhat slower than others, humans are impressively boring and maybe bargain a little better etc. Something stereotypical can be found from many fantasy settings so that at least there is some like quirk to each race despite removing the stat orientation.


03 Oct 2017 14:15
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Adventurer

Joined: 27 Nov 2013 01:34
Posts: 97
As one who delved into other muds long ago before landing on Gen, part of the fun and draw of this game for me is the diversity of the races. Whats the flipside of all of this complaining? A standard playing field where the only thing different is the description. Some of you think that is utopian, but if you havent experienced what you request first hand, how can you have a concept of it?
Examples:
All races have the same attributes and stats - no differences at all.
All of the characters have the same cap on size, HP and mana... for sake of argument, lets call this the current level of genesis hero
All class specialties (guilds) have 1 special that does the exact same amount of damage and takes the exact same amount of time to use as every other class or guild... the only thing different is how it looks
Does it sound boring yet?
No? Ok, no equipment in the game is any better than forged smith items, except for 5 unique items in the game.
Oh wait... this mud had color as part of the mudlib... so your combat could be color coded for different hits
Ok, my character is maxed, now what? Well no reason to grind... I can either A) kill other players B) try to find bugs/exploits C) socialize or D) find a new game. I chose the latter.
I know I am not the only one who has experienced this in the past...
I just say be careful of what you wish for.


03 Oct 2017 18:31
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