Want to know community opinion on ME
Posted: 02 Dec 2017 23:02
Hello!
Some people here might be aware that I've been grumbling a bit around about ME. I sent some mails to some wizards too.
I got some reasonable responses, and people said I should Wizup to do the changes I want...
So I am writing this topic to explain what I intend to do, becoming wizard is quite a commitment, specially new wizards have some rules that are bothersome from my perspective, and also I would have to meet expectations of lots of people.
Also Finwe, that is the Liege domain, so far is silent, I don't know his opinion on all this, maybe he will just say "no" and nothing will happen.
So I want to know people opinions before I push with this further.
-----------
The main source of the problem is this: Minas Morgul existed, it was possible to be even King of Minas Morgul, so whoever was Wizard at the time, expanded Minas Tirith, and added Dunedain guild to the fifth circle, to people wanting to RP being Dunedain.
This had some effects:
1. To be Dunedain, you had to be good aligned. This was intended, still to this time when you join the guild, you must swear an oath of allegiance to Gondor, Valar, etc...
2. To be Dunedain you must have done some of Hunthor quests, to be able to reach the guild, this at time ensured there was no "clueless" people joining.
3. Minas Tirith had a place for good players to rest and whatnot.
Later, Dunedain guild was moved to Pelargir, the intention was allow Evil players to join too... Unfortunately the result was quite nasty:
1. Although the guild was intended to be good aligned, most Houses ended in the hands of evil characters, evne when it makes no sense at all lore-wise.
2. During the conflicts for control, some nasty behaviour happened, including people deleting each other book from library, and some game mechanics abuse.
3. Minas Tirith turned into a "NPC city", the city has no interesting services like Palanthas and Sybarus, no guilds, no clubs. There is no reason to visit Minas Tirith except to do quests, and to those that WANT to live in Minas Tirith, it is almost impossible, there is nowhere to store your stuff or hire horses nearby (and no decent docks either)
4. Dunedain guild was designed to be inside Minas Tirith, in room design and whatnot, this shows a bit: it relies heavily on stores that are in Minas Tirith, and room descriptions mention stuff that is non-existing or make no sense in Pelargir.
Dunedain guild has also some other problems due to its age and lack of updating.
----
So my proposal, that I would try to execute wizing up:
1. Create Black Numenorean guild.
2. Fix some Dunedain houses, Borlad for example is not Dunedain (he is easterling), that house need to be moved to Black Nuemoreans or a Haradrim guild.
3. Still on Houses subject, House Umarth and House Thalion refer to exact same char, that didn't even had descendants... completely unsure what to do about that. Maybe move the players of these houses to Black Numenorean guild and let them pick new name?
4. Move Dunedain Hall back to Minas Tirith
5. Because neutrals might want to be Dunedain, a change to Minas Tirith rules: allow non-evil chars to enter during peace-time, and during 'war time', where more goodness is required to enter, allow neutral dunedain to enter anyway.
6. Like Krynn, add some features to make Gondor (the realm) more interesting to those that join racial guilds there, like letting people mess with gates, NPCs that react to them (including the Dunedain NPCs should react to their own family, like the Belecthor NPCs being happy to see their kin)
7. Add some way to allow heirlooms easier... dunno how yet. Maybe tweak Pelargir jewelery shop a bit. Maybe add custom signet rings to it for dunedain and black numenoreans... Also lords-only clothes.
8. Maybe steal from Krynn too, allow mounts being dressed in house colours and crest.
9. add some way to dunedain/black numenoreans track their own progress inside the guild... right now it is kidna insane, you just "advance" from unknown to another unknown, and there is no way at all to know what is your current status, except sometimes be surprised by the trainer NPC refusing to teach stuff. (I mean thigns like titles or guild items that change, like other guilds have)
---
Features I intend to give to Dunedain and Black Numenorean guilds:
1. simple storage (example, a box, wardrobe, whatever) in their "home" rooms, mostly so people don't clutter the floor as it currently happens.
2. RP-related items on shops, for example for dunedain clothes with the house crests and/or gondor crest, thematic armour and weapons, etc... they don't have to be excellent, just to provide some stereotypical looks stuff. (like how rockfriends guild sell axes, or there is a bow shop near noldor guild, or knights of solamnia armours and clothes)
3. themed-mounts, Black Numenoreans already have some (in the evil guilds), Dunedain would use the Royal Stables in Minas Tirith.
4. give some rooms Dunedain hall is supposed to have (according to its own desc anyway), specially, a meeting room, with chairs and refreshments, like I saw in some other guilds and clubs. Same thing for black numenorean guild.
5. Some skill rework...
----
About skill rework: the Duendain skills are mostly fine, in fact many people I talked about Dunedain guild made clear they want to join the guild just for the skills... not the RP... But there is one skill that is rather strange. Dunedain learn "life spells", but no spell. It is either redundant (if they DO learn a life spell, they are already in a guild that teaches it), or useless. (they have no life spell to cast). Also, life spells is useless to black numenoreans, thematically...
So unless community is strongly against it for balance reasons, I would give Dunedain one or two minor life spells, and Black Numenoreans would have the 'death spells' skill, and one or two death spells. Otherwise black numenorean skills would be identical to dunedain ones.
----
Final houses distribution:
surely Dunedain: (houses that make no sense as black numorean)
Amandil, Aranarth, Beor, Belecthor, Hador, Hurin, Hallacar
possible Black numenorean: (maybe have those houses exist in both guilds?)
Agarwaen+Thalion+Umarth (these 3 houses refer all to same family unit... Dunno why the 3 exist, should be only one)
Haladin (lore has both dunedain and black numenorans in this house)
House that shouldn't exist as Dunedain or Black numenorean:
Borlad (they are easterlings, should go to a Haradrim guild at least)
----
In my opinion black numenorean houses should use black speech as language for name, instead of Sindarin...
Also house Agarwaen+Thalion+Umarth should be renamed, or merged... And new houses created with other cahracter names, or reusing some existing houses of the lore that ended ignored.
I wonder who the original creator of the guild was, to know his reasoning for the choice of house names. some feel just 'tacked on', like Umarth+Thalion that refer to exact same person, or Borlad, that wasn't Dunedain (not Borlad himself, but other people from his race used to enslave Dunedains by force so... very opposite of dunedain instead).
Some people here might be aware that I've been grumbling a bit around about ME. I sent some mails to some wizards too.
I got some reasonable responses, and people said I should Wizup to do the changes I want...
So I am writing this topic to explain what I intend to do, becoming wizard is quite a commitment, specially new wizards have some rules that are bothersome from my perspective, and also I would have to meet expectations of lots of people.
Also Finwe, that is the Liege domain, so far is silent, I don't know his opinion on all this, maybe he will just say "no" and nothing will happen.
So I want to know people opinions before I push with this further.
-----------
The main source of the problem is this: Minas Morgul existed, it was possible to be even King of Minas Morgul, so whoever was Wizard at the time, expanded Minas Tirith, and added Dunedain guild to the fifth circle, to people wanting to RP being Dunedain.
This had some effects:
1. To be Dunedain, you had to be good aligned. This was intended, still to this time when you join the guild, you must swear an oath of allegiance to Gondor, Valar, etc...
2. To be Dunedain you must have done some of Hunthor quests, to be able to reach the guild, this at time ensured there was no "clueless" people joining.
3. Minas Tirith had a place for good players to rest and whatnot.
Later, Dunedain guild was moved to Pelargir, the intention was allow Evil players to join too... Unfortunately the result was quite nasty:
1. Although the guild was intended to be good aligned, most Houses ended in the hands of evil characters, evne when it makes no sense at all lore-wise.
2. During the conflicts for control, some nasty behaviour happened, including people deleting each other book from library, and some game mechanics abuse.
3. Minas Tirith turned into a "NPC city", the city has no interesting services like Palanthas and Sybarus, no guilds, no clubs. There is no reason to visit Minas Tirith except to do quests, and to those that WANT to live in Minas Tirith, it is almost impossible, there is nowhere to store your stuff or hire horses nearby (and no decent docks either)
4. Dunedain guild was designed to be inside Minas Tirith, in room design and whatnot, this shows a bit: it relies heavily on stores that are in Minas Tirith, and room descriptions mention stuff that is non-existing or make no sense in Pelargir.
Dunedain guild has also some other problems due to its age and lack of updating.
----
So my proposal, that I would try to execute wizing up:
1. Create Black Numenorean guild.
2. Fix some Dunedain houses, Borlad for example is not Dunedain (he is easterling), that house need to be moved to Black Nuemoreans or a Haradrim guild.
3. Still on Houses subject, House Umarth and House Thalion refer to exact same char, that didn't even had descendants... completely unsure what to do about that. Maybe move the players of these houses to Black Numenorean guild and let them pick new name?
4. Move Dunedain Hall back to Minas Tirith
5. Because neutrals might want to be Dunedain, a change to Minas Tirith rules: allow non-evil chars to enter during peace-time, and during 'war time', where more goodness is required to enter, allow neutral dunedain to enter anyway.
6. Like Krynn, add some features to make Gondor (the realm) more interesting to those that join racial guilds there, like letting people mess with gates, NPCs that react to them (including the Dunedain NPCs should react to their own family, like the Belecthor NPCs being happy to see their kin)
7. Add some way to allow heirlooms easier... dunno how yet. Maybe tweak Pelargir jewelery shop a bit. Maybe add custom signet rings to it for dunedain and black numenoreans... Also lords-only clothes.
8. Maybe steal from Krynn too, allow mounts being dressed in house colours and crest.
9. add some way to dunedain/black numenoreans track their own progress inside the guild... right now it is kidna insane, you just "advance" from unknown to another unknown, and there is no way at all to know what is your current status, except sometimes be surprised by the trainer NPC refusing to teach stuff. (I mean thigns like titles or guild items that change, like other guilds have)
---
Features I intend to give to Dunedain and Black Numenorean guilds:
1. simple storage (example, a box, wardrobe, whatever) in their "home" rooms, mostly so people don't clutter the floor as it currently happens.
2. RP-related items on shops, for example for dunedain clothes with the house crests and/or gondor crest, thematic armour and weapons, etc... they don't have to be excellent, just to provide some stereotypical looks stuff. (like how rockfriends guild sell axes, or there is a bow shop near noldor guild, or knights of solamnia armours and clothes)
3. themed-mounts, Black Numenoreans already have some (in the evil guilds), Dunedain would use the Royal Stables in Minas Tirith.
4. give some rooms Dunedain hall is supposed to have (according to its own desc anyway), specially, a meeting room, with chairs and refreshments, like I saw in some other guilds and clubs. Same thing for black numenorean guild.
5. Some skill rework...
----
About skill rework: the Duendain skills are mostly fine, in fact many people I talked about Dunedain guild made clear they want to join the guild just for the skills... not the RP... But there is one skill that is rather strange. Dunedain learn "life spells", but no spell. It is either redundant (if they DO learn a life spell, they are already in a guild that teaches it), or useless. (they have no life spell to cast). Also, life spells is useless to black numenoreans, thematically...
So unless community is strongly against it for balance reasons, I would give Dunedain one or two minor life spells, and Black Numenoreans would have the 'death spells' skill, and one or two death spells. Otherwise black numenorean skills would be identical to dunedain ones.
----
Final houses distribution:
surely Dunedain: (houses that make no sense as black numorean)
Amandil, Aranarth, Beor, Belecthor, Hador, Hurin, Hallacar
possible Black numenorean: (maybe have those houses exist in both guilds?)
Agarwaen+Thalion+Umarth (these 3 houses refer all to same family unit... Dunno why the 3 exist, should be only one)
Haladin (lore has both dunedain and black numenorans in this house)
House that shouldn't exist as Dunedain or Black numenorean:
Borlad (they are easterlings, should go to a Haradrim guild at least)
----
In my opinion black numenorean houses should use black speech as language for name, instead of Sindarin...
Also house Agarwaen+Thalion+Umarth should be renamed, or merged... And new houses created with other cahracter names, or reusing some existing houses of the lore that ended ignored.
I wonder who the original creator of the guild was, to know his reasoning for the choice of house names. some feel just 'tacked on', like Umarth+Thalion that refer to exact same person, or Borlad, that wasn't Dunedain (not Borlad himself, but other people from his race used to enslave Dunedains by force so... very opposite of dunedain instead).